The great surfboard update, Miles starts first grade, puppy raising tips and listener Q&A!
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Our favorite live music memories and favorite bands to see in concert. Prioritization of thinness and seeking validation for weight loss. Rage against the before/after photos and much, much more!
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This is Joy & Claire Episode 107: Hot Minutes
Episode Date: December 30, 2021
Transcription Completed: January 14, 2022
Audio Length: 49:30 minutes
Joy: Hey guys, this is Joy.
Claire: And this is Claire.
Joy: And this is Joy and Claire. Thanks for putting up with my voice last week, because that was really cute. I feel like everybody is sick though, so everybody has this.
Claire: I also just feel like everyone has COVID.
Joy: Everyone. I’m laughing, but I’m crying inside.
Claire: I’m laughing, but I’m crying.
Joy: I’m smiling, but I’m crying inside.
Claire: And I’m also kind of like, okay, if we’re all going to get COVID, at least we’re getting the least serious variant so far, I guess.
Joy: I guess.
Claire: Which technically speaking – I mean, this is a weird thing to say. But it’s in the virus’s best interest to be less serious. Because if you as a virus kill all your hosts, you’re not going to get very far. That’s why Ebola will never be a true pandemic because it’s too serious too quickly. There’s no time for it to spread.
Joy: Oh. Got it.
Claire: See what I mean? You as a carrier of the virus get too sick too quickly, and then you die. So there’s not time for you to spread.
Claire: Versus if you’re carrying COVID and you just have a sniffle for four weeks and you walk around and give it to everyone.
Joy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Claire: Right. I’m not saying… just speaking from the virus’s point of view.
Joy: The virus has spoken. Roll out, I’m kind of sick of it.
Claire: But also, I think at this point we’ve realized that people are not going to get vaccinated. We can have as many feelings as we want about that.
Joy: I have a lot of feelings about it.
Claire: We can get as many vaccines as we want, and it won’t change other people’s unwillingness to view public health as important enough to do that.
Joy: Yeah, I just have to interject really quick. It’s so funny how things pop out at people where, man, you can’t say anything without making someone mad. But I think one time I did a Q&A on Instagram stories. Someone asked some question, basically said like, “thoughts about being around the unvaccinated.” I answered the question being like, well, there’s the vaccinated and then there’s the unvaccinated. We’re not trying to be mean.
Claire: It’s not like “the great unwashed.”
Joy: And so someone wrote and was like, “Ugh, the unvaccinated. We’re just these horrible people.” No, that’s not what we’re saying at all. I’m the vaccinated. You’re the – there’s no difference. You either are or you’re not. It’s not personal.
Claire: This is one option or the other. No offense.
Joy: You could just say “the vaccinated” and say the same thing about me. Man, we just really are quick to get real angry.
Claire: Right. “The unvaccinated.” Like, “You can’t call me the unvaccinated.” Okay, I don’t know what else to call you. Individuals who refrain from being vaccinated for COVID-19. Person-first language, Joy. Okay, not to make fun of person-first language because it’s important.
Joy: Okay. Okay.
Claire: So, I do feel like I know more people right now who in the last 2-4 days have tested positive for COVID than any other point almost combined in the pandemic. I’m lucky that personally I have not known that many people – it’s happened here and there to friends and their kids. It’s thankfully always been relatively mild cases. Crops up every couple of weeks. “Oh, did you hear so-and-so tested positive?” But right now, I feel like every single person is like, “tested positive,” “tested positive,” “tested positive.” I don’t know. At this point, and I know we’ve all been saying this the whole time, it’s a matter of time before you get it. But right now it feels like it’s knocking on the door. I took Evie this morning to get a PCR test because she’s a snot faucet. Which also, it’s December. Kids get sick, and that’s the hardest thing right now. When will we get back to the point… will we ever get back to a point where having a runny nose, you aren’t wondering, oh my gosh, am I going to kill my grandpa with this runny nose?
Joy: Right. Exactly.
Claire: And that’s what’s hard. The data is pretty clear that most people who get COVID will not become hospitalized. But it’s still a crappy thing to get. You still feel sick. Feeling sick is not fun. You can still feel sick for 2+ weeks. Long haul COVID sounds horrible. We don’t know the long-term effects of COVID. People are like, “Well, we don’t know the long-term effects of vaccines.” Well, we really don’t know long-term effects of COVID. We also don’t know long-term effects of cell phone usage, being in houses with Wi-Fi.
Joy: I could get hit by a bus tomorrow, that’s how I live my life. You know what, guys? Can we just calm down? We are not promised tomorrow.
Claire: And for me, “We don’t know what the long-term effects are.” Do you have this much concern over the long-term effects of every choice you make that doesn’t impact other people? So anyways.
Joy: It’s a hard time to be alive. It’s truly unprecedented.
Claire: I’m feeling a lot of anxiety right now about COVID. I have not felt this way in a while. I feel like it’s been a hot minute… a pleasant hot minute… a cozy, warm hot minute since I –
Joy: Pleasant hot minute sounds like a really good movie.
Claire: That sounds either like a zombie land style comedy or definitely like a porn. A pleasant top minute. Since I was having daily worries about COVID. I haven’t logged on to check the case counter in a while. I definitely looked at it today.
Joy: Scott looks at it every single day. He reads the case count. He stays abreast of all the information. We decided to – I feel like every single person that I know, at least in my circle of friends, had to change their plans or something happened or someone got sick. We were going to go to Oklahoma City to see Scott’s family. I was still sick, and Scott’s family got sick. They got the cold. We all tested negative for COVID, but everyone was getting these colds. We’re like, why would we travel right now? So we just decided last minute. Luckily our tickets are refundable, whatever, whatever. At this point, I feel like any trip we plan, we’re like, just do refundable because plans are always changing and we have to be ready for that. We made the decision, A, we’re not going to put our immune systems through that because things are just crazy and we don’t want to get other people sick. I don’t want to put other people at risk. You just never know. I was talking to someone today in counseling, one of my clients. I was saying, collectively we’re all very tired of making decisions that normally would just be nothing. It’s kind of like that decision fatigue on steroids. Where normally you’re like, do I go on this trip, or do I not go on this trip? There’s all these moral dilemmas that are being thrown at us constantly. So if I decide to cancel my trip and my friend doesn’t cancel their trip, does that make me a better person? No. You have to make the decision that’s best for your family. But I think we’re starting to do the whole moral highness thing. Where it’s like, no one’s better than each other. We’re just trying to make it through the freaking day and not get COVID. At the end of the day, that’s what’s exhausting.
Claire: Not get it, and not give it to anyone. And just live our lives without feeling like we have to check the case counter. So I am really feeling stressed about that right now in a way that I haven’t felt in a while.
Joy: Are you just talking about you’re stressed about the pandemic?
Claire: Yeah. I’m starting to feel like, okay, in the summer we had this glimpse of life could come back, and then it got swept away by delta. And then it felt like, okay, well maybe now that kids can get vaccinated that will make a difference. And then comes omicron. Do you say “ah-micron” or “oh-micron.”
Joy: I say “ah-micron.” Because I was listening to The Daily, and I think they say “ah-micron.”
Claire: “Ah” like “ahh” –
Joy: Not “oh-micron,” “ah-micron.”
Claire: Okay, somebody who speaks Latin, please weigh in because I’ve heard it both ways. I started saying it “oh-micron” because there was a hot minute in college where I pledged a sorority. Literally, I didn’t even make it through the pledge class.
Joy: There’s a lot of hot minutes in this episode, I’m just going to say.
Claire: It’s a lot of hot minutes. Two so far. There was a brief period of my life [laughing]. And when we learned the Greek alphabet, my memory was of it being “oh-micron,” but I also feel like – anyway. So someone please weight in. Regardless, it was like, maybe now that the kids can get vaccinated, we’ll maybe turn a corner, and then here comes this new variant. And it just feels like, when are we going to get out of this loop? I think that there is still, and I think there has been, this assumption that people who agree with public health measures like vaccines and quarantining and all that, we are not frustrated or tired or questioning any of this. I am pro masks, pro social distancing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I am still sitting here being like, how the heck are we going to get out of this? When is the loop going to end? It feels like we’re just getting spun into another cycle, and I just want that to not… I want it to be over, and I don’t even know what over means.
Joy: I was thinking about that today.
Claire: I want my kids to be able to go do stuff and not worry about what’s going to happen when they get back. I want to be able to plan a trip and not have ten contingency plans.
Joy: Right, not think ahead, all these contingency plans.
Claire: To me, it being “over” is sort of what you were describing. I want to have to not just weight every single decision ten different directions before making it. I want to just be able to make a decision and move forward.
Joy: Right. Now, we are making decisions, but there’s 20 different decisions that are layered into it. Scott’s a huge sports fan. Watches football, watches basketball. So he’s following all these games, and he’s in a Fantasy Football league. He’s always talking to me about how all these players are dropping out every single week. Tons of them can’t play because they caught the virus. It’s just like, are we doing this again? Where sports are shutting down. And then I have tickets to see The Lion King at the Denver Performing Arts this coming weekend with my mom. Is that going to get cancelled? Because I’ve seen other shows getting cancelled because the cast is getting COVID. It’s like, alright, here we are again. But I do have to take a pause because I Googled it.
Claire: Thank you, Siri. Okay, well that’s what’s on the top of my mind right now.
Joy: It’s stressful. It’s just freaking stressful.
Claire: You guys didn’t take your trip. All of our Christmas festivities got cancelled because my nephew tested positive for COVID. Thankfully he’s doing fine. I will say, a lot of people I know who are testing positive are vaccinated and boosted. But my nephew was not fully, fully vaccinated. Like, he had gotten a second dose a couple of days before. And then his little sister who is not yet eligible to be vaccinated, they are the only two in their family who haven’t. Everyone else in the family who have been living with them and riding in cars with them haven’t gotten it. So clearly vaccines are still effective against it. It still just makes me feel like there’s no… I don’t know. There’s just no answer. Yeah, I took Evie to get tested today. We sat in the car for two hours in this endless car line. And while we were sitting there, the guy in the car behind me came up and tapped on my window and said, “Hey, your back tire is going flat.” I was like, oh my God. I can’t get out of this line. Even if I wanted to.
Joy: No. You’re like, I’m going to burn the rim down. I don’t care.
Claire: It wasn’t even like, “I sacrificed 90 minutes. I’m not leaving now.” It was like, where do I go?
Joy: Right. You can’t go anyway.
Claire: A driveway, basically, sized area behind a baseball field. There’s a train. I physically could have not gotten out of there, even if I wanted to. So I’m just sitting here thinking, I hope this leak is slow enough that I can sit here for probably another hour and then still make it home. Thankfully it did. I was able to drop my car off at the tire place on my way home. And then at one point – everyone there was so nice. The testing people came up and they’re like, “I’m so sorry. Did you know your tire is going flat?” I was like, “I know, and I just can’t do anything about it” and start crying. He’s like, “I’m so sorry. We’ll find you an air compressor. If you need something, we’ll call AAA.” He was so sweet. He’s like, “We’ll get you home, don’t worry.” I was like, “Okay.”
Joy: Those are the types of people that are angels on earth.
Claire: They are.
Joy: When you’re just like, I’ve had it, I don’t know what else to do.
Claire: And he is running around in his face shield dealing with all these people all day, and he was like, “Don’t worry. We’ll figure it out. We’ll call AAA if we need to.”
Joy: I also feel like when a woman cries especially, everyone is like, “We’re on it.”
Claire: And here I am with this two-year-old in the backseat who is clearly not having a good time either. My tire’s going flat, I’ve been sitting here all day.
Joy: Oh my gosh, that’s kind of an insult to injury situation.
Claire: It was one thousand percent an insult to injury. Especially because I felt like I went to get tested out of an incredible abundance of caution. Like I said, Evie could just have a runny nose and I wouldn’t think twice about it, but we were right there. Let me just do this real quick. And then “real quick” turned into an hour and a half. Anyway.
Joy: And I’m feeling for the people of New York where I’m looking at the lines for people to get tested is just insane. Running out of tests. That just feels, wow, we’re going through these waves. What I was thinking about recently is from the beginning of the pandemic – and I know a lot of the podcasts do a year in a review. And especially from the beginning of 2021 when we thought things were going to get better. And they haven’t really gotten that much better. But how at the beginning they did this podcast on The Daily where they revisited people who had to quit their jobs – or kind of left their jobs when the shutdown happened, and they decided not to return to their jobs because unemployment was paying more than they were making and they had these whole revelations about what they wanted to do with their lives. Because, hey, I was working really hard and not making a lot of money, and blah, blah, blah. So they kind of revisited some people that they interviewed initially right after the shutdown. And I just remember thinking the way that we talked about the pandemic when it first happened was, oh maybe in a few weeks this will be… I mean, but again, we’ve never been here before.
Joy: No one that I know has been in a pandemic before. When has this happened? No.
Claire: Zero humans alive today.
Joy: Zero humans. Except for my father-in-law with polio.
Claire: Oh, right. Yes. I mean, I don’t want to spend this whole podcast talking about COVID. Because I am simultaneously sick of it and also can’t stop thinking about it. I think that’s also a global paradox.
Joy: I think everyone feels that way.
Joy: And I think as long as we don’t – what I know to be true from our listeners. And I get it. Whenever we start to get angry and ranty, I know that people tend to tune out. And that’s fair. I think there’s enough of that going around. But I also just think we’re in it and we need to talk about it. So we have to be like, oh, well, our plans were cancelled, and that really sucks. And it just does. We’re tired. We’re tired of making decisions on top of decisions on top of decisions. When normally I could be like, yeah, let’s go to Hawaii in June. Now it’s like, I don’t know. I don’t know what the pandemic is going to look like. I don’t know if Hawaii is going to be open. Whatever. So I think it’s just in solidarity, we all feel you. And we’re still here. We’re still here.
Claire: And we’re still here. How was your Christmas?
Joy: It was, you know… ugh, I get kind of emotional about this. I love spending Christmas with Scott’s family. I really do. It just always reminds me of when Scott and I were first dating. I think we started dating Memorial Day of 2006. I went to Thanksgiving and Christmas I think that first year that we were dating, so we were fairly new. And I just remember loving the Christmas. Ever since then, I’ve been like, wow, I loved Christmas at his parent’s house. They go all out. They go all out with food. I may have told this story before, but I think it’s so cute. I think I was vegan before I started dating Scott, so they just didn’t know what to feed me. Whenever I went to Scott’s parents’ house, they would buy huge edible arrangements, which is just a big basket of fruit. That’s what they would buy for me. So it became this tradition every single year, Dan would buy me huge edible arrangements, and that’s what I would freaking eat the entire time I was at their house. It was really funny. I have a sweet spot in my heart for that, even though I’m not vegan anymore. It’s like farm country, and they’re all farmers. They’re like, we don’t know what to do with a vegan in our family. So that was really cute. I just have such a nostalgia for going home with Scott for the holidays that when we had to cancel our trip – and for good reason – it just made me really sad and lonely. We didn’t want to go to my parents’ house because we didn’t want to get them sick, just in case whatever I have is still lingering. So we spent it alone, and we ordered food from Linger which is great. Trying to support local businesses as much as possible. So that felt good, but it’s lonely when it’s just us two. It was really nice, and we try to keep busy, and we just hung out with the dogs and went to our neighbor’s house for a little bit, outside of course. But you know, it made me really appreciate – and we’ve had Christmases that we’ve spent just the two of us I think like once or twice out of the 13 years. So we’re always with some part of our family. But every time it happens where it’s just the two of us, while I appreciate my husband, it just feels kind of sad. It really made me miss my family. So we were on FaceTime with everybody. But it was nice.
Claire: You’re like, I like this guy, but I see him every day.
Joy: Yeah, exactly. I put some Legos together. I got some more Legos sets. It was great. You guys had to stay home too, yeah?
Claire: Yeah. So my brother normally hosts Christmas Eve. And then someone from his wife’s family who also lives in Boulder will host something on Christmas Day evening. So we had just planned completely on being with them, and that obviously didn’t work out. So on Christmas Eve, we went over to my mom’s house, which we don’t… like, my mom lives a mile away. We see her a lot. So we don’t always do holidays with her on the day. And that’s been kind of the way it’s been for a long time because there are more siblings and cousins on my dad’s side than on my mom’s side. My parents obviously are divorced. We will kind of just catch up with my mom later. We went over there actually on Christmas Eve, which was nice and super low key. We were over there for a couple hours. We made a short rib pot pie with cheddar crust that was really good. Came home and went to bed. And then on Christmas morning, I’ve had this dream probably since the Christmas before I got pregnant with Miles. Brandon and I went to Breckenridge first thing Christmas morning and it was empty. It is never empty, let alone during a holiday. But on Christmas morning, people who come up for skiing, who take ski vacations, everyone wants to have a lazy morning. You wake up, do presents, you do your traditions. And not that many people just get up and immediately go skiing on Christmas morning. I have been waiting for my kids to be old enough for us to start doing that as a family. My dream is that we will get up, get directly in the car, have a breakfast burrito in the car, ski for a few hours, and go home and start Christmas at noon and do presents. So we didn’t quite do it like that exactly. We had a little bit of time at home. We opened a couple of little presents. We did our stockings and one or two presents and breakfast, and then got in the car. We went to our local hill called Eldora, which is like an hour away. I didn’t even put my ski boots on. Brandon took Miles on the bunny hill twice, and that was it. This was not as picturesque as it sounds. In order to even get in the car, I had to tell Miles – because Brandon had taken Miles skiing earlier in the week. He was climbing on a pile of snow in the parking lot, fell, hit his head, and got a concussion. Was literally disoriented, didn’t know where he was, didn’t know what had happened. A true concussion. Came home, was nauseous, and then ever since then has been kind of weepy. He’s definitely recovering from an actual head injury. But since the injury wasn’t from when he was skiing. He skis with a helmet obviously. And obviously right now, Brandon holds onto him the whole time. His risks during the skiing activity are quite low. We wanted to get him back out there because he starts ski lessons next week and we didn’t want him to think, “I’m going to go and get hurt.”
Joy: Yeah, like build up his confidence again.
Claire: Right, right. We wanted to build up his confidence again. But he was nervous. So I was like, “Listen. We are going to get in the car and drive up there. And if we get there and you don’t want to ski, we will turn around and come home.” So we get there and we parked and he was like, “I want to go home.” “Okay. Let’s just get out and go in the lodge and have a hot chocolate.”
Joy: Look at the snow and then…
Claire: Exactly. One step at a time. “We’re already here. Let’s just go and get some hot chocolate.” So we go and we spend like 45 minutes in the lodge. Which we haven’t even gone skiing yet. Have some hot chocolate.
Joy: And at this point, is it still pretty empty?
Claire: Yeah, at this point it is pretty empty. So we did finally get him onto skis for two runs. Evie was doing the toddler thing where she was screaming because her hands were cold, but she wouldn’t put on her gloves.
Claire: Which is such a two-year-old thing. “Put your gloves on.” “No! My hands are cold!” I don’t know what to tell you. I have this piece of clothing that is specifically made to solve this problem, but no. The only thing that she wants less than warm hands is to warm up her hands. So yeah, and then we came home. Miles went up the magic carpet and came down the bunny hill twice, and we came home. It was so nice. I will say, I really want to give Brandon a lot of credit because he finally took my gifting advice, and he gave me all things that I wanted.
Joy: That’s amazing.
Claire: I am so proud of him. I got a new bread knife. I got a new water bottle that I’d really been wanting. He gave me a bike helmet. He gave me a piece of Aura Bora.
Claire: Stuff that I really like. Yeah, exactly. A candle that he knew I liked. He has been collecting it for months. Every time I mention something like, “Oh, that’s such a cool thing,” he would buy it.
Joy: That’s so great.
Claire: And I was like, see, wasn’t it nice to surprise me – even though these are specific things that I asked for, I was still surprised that you had thought about them. But you’re not surprising me with how novel the item is. You are surprising me with your thoughtfulness for remembering the exact thing that I wanted.
Claire: There’s a different take on the element of surprise that I think is more meaningful and more satisfying for me because it’s obviously what I want. So really happy about that. So it was really fun, and yay Brandon for finally –
Joy: Finally not going rogue and just staying in the lane. Listening to what you want.
Claire: Yeah. It shows some personal growth on Brandon’s behalf because I think he always used to think, well if I’m spending all this effort getting it for you, why wouldn’t you like it? And it’s not that I don’t appreciate the effort, but no matter how much effort you put into something, if it’s not something that I want, then I’m not probably going to end up wearing or using it.
Joy: Exactly. Yeah.
Claire: So he changed his approach, and it was very successful. So yay, Brandon.
Joy: Yay. Yay, gift giving.
Claire: And then coming up next, New Year’s.
Joy: Here we are.
Claire: Here we are, Joy. Finally we can talk about New Year’s resolutions. You’ve been bursting since like Halloween to talk about it.
Joy: But can I ask a really quick question? Okay, so a new year always makes me think of the year in review. Do you ever think about that? Do you reflect on the year at all of what lessons you learned?
Claire: I mean, I normally do, but this year I’m kind of ready to just run the other way.
Joy: Yeah. The only reason I ask is… maybe it’s a selfish reason that I want to talk about it. Maybe a lot of people felt this way, but 2020 was such a shit show that we were like, “Yes, 2021 is going to be amazing.” And it just turned out to be one of the hardest years of my life. So I think the lesson of 2022 is, you know what, I have zero expectations of whatever. The bar is low. Anything great that happens in 2022 is going to really be a cherry on top of the sundae. Because 2021 was just really, really hard. The thing that I keep wanting to bring up and I don’t know how to talk about it, so maybe we can just gloss over it, whatever, tell me what you think. But I’m still holding a grudge from the stuff that happened from leaving my job in May that I’ve been having these weird dreams about needing some type of closure, still having a grudge, somehow needing to let that go. And I don’t know how to do that.
Claire: So you want advice for how to let your grudge go?
Joy: Yeah. I’m asking you for advice.
Claire: Okay, let’s see. I’m really not a grudge holder. I mean, move on.
Joy and Claire: [laughing]
Joy: Just lift heavier. What did Mike say?
Claire: Just pull harder.
Joy: Just pull harder. Just let go.
Claire: Just let go. You want to go? Just let go.
Joy: I mean, it’s true.
Claire: What do you feel is holding you back from just being like, “Okay, I’m over it.”
Joy: I’m so mad. I’m just mad…
Claire: Do you ever see your anger getting resolved?
Joy: That’s true, no.
Claire: Are you searching for resolution?
Joy: Yeah, it’s probably never going to be resolved. I think when you feel like you’ve been wronged and betrayed – I’m going to say all these words. Truly people that I thought were my friends turned out not to be and betrayed me. And it’s all just me, me, me being hurt. Wanting to have some type of resolution or apology that’s never going to come. I think that’s just what I need to let go of. And the reason I bring it up today too is, man, it’s been 6+ months. I had a dream about it last night of asking people around me being like, want to write so-and-so a letter to really let them know – it’s just that whole thing of, it’s not going to solve anything. It’s not going to solve anything, Joy. I think that’s the lesson maybe. It’s okay to be hurt. It’s okay to have two feelings. It’s okay to be hurt by what happened because truly I felt super betrayed. It’s also okay to be like, alright, you kind of have to figure out how to move forward.
Claire: I also think there’s something about the way that we talk about difficult things and forgiveness and getting over something that makes us believe that something has to feel positive to neutral in order for us to move on from it.
Joy: That’s true.
Claire: You can still think that it was shitty. You never have to change your belief about that.
Joy: That’s very true.
Claire: That doesn’t mean that you can’t move on. You can be like, yeah, that was shitty that that happened. I can’t believe that happened.
Claire: That really hurt.
Joy: Yeah. You know what I think of? It’s kind of like grief where grief is always going to hurt when you think about it, but it just transforms you. It’s a very different scenario of course, but grief, you don’t ever get over it. You just work through it, and it transforms you in a different way. I think that’s kind of how I look about it. It might say seriously over dramatic without giving the full details of what happened. And that really just doesn’t matter on a public platform. What matters is my feelings were really hurt. Really hurt. So grieving the loss of friends and people who I thought I could trust. And then being able to move on from that to be like, wow, my feelings were just really hurt. So maybe it’s not so much a grudge as it is feeling so bad that people really treated me to poorly, and my feelings are hurt.
Claire: Yeah. My advice as someone who doesn’t hold grudges – but it’s not like I’ve never had a hard time letting something in my past go – is to think of, like, can you identify something specific that is standing between you and feeling like you could move on? If not, then maybe you just need to be honest with yourself that you’re not going to get – or if you can identify and you know you aren’t going to get it – then make peace with that and maybe “moving on” or “letting it go” just feels like making the conscious decision to say, “I’m never going to get what I needed from this situation, and I can’t keep thinking about it.”
Joy: Yeah. Definitely as time has gone by, it’s not as strong of a feeling. But it’s definitely –
Claire: Right, it’s not as sharp.
Joy: Right. But I’m like, oh yeah, it’s so weird I had a dream about it last night. That’s so weird. It’s still there. So it’s not like this grand moment is going to happen when 2022 is here where I’m like, “Okay, I’m over it.” But I feel like because this all happened in 2021, and you guys know I like to think about life in calendar years and just being like, oh, 2021 was the year that all that crap went down with my previous place of employment. But I think you’re right. It’s just acknowledging that really hurt. And not to say I have to have this grand epiphany of fully letting it go. But just being like, yeah, my feelings were hurt. I can’t stop my life for that. Crap happens. Guess what? Crap happens in life. And what? Do I think I’m exempt from bad things happening to me? I don’t know. I have this weird expectation that I was going to leave this job on such a high note and a good feeling, and it was not that. I think that’s what really bugs me. If anyone else has advice…
Claire: I know, right. What is some advice if you out there are a grudge holder and you have had a lightbulb moment about how to get over grudges, please share with us. So we both had job changes in 2021. I feel like that was kind of the headline. We didn’t go anywhere.
Joy: Didn’t go anywhere. I had the best break of work of my life because I just got to chill out and get my priorities in line.
Claire: You healed your body.
Joy: Fueled my body.
Claire: Healed it.
Joy: Healed it. Yeah, I healed my body.
Claire: This time last year, you were not even a month out from your Graves’ Disease diagnosis. And now that feels like it was so long ago.
Joy: Yeah. Feels like it was so long ago. Healed my body, got all relaxed and priorities straight, and I have a new great job that I love. And you have a new job.
Claire: This year for me was a lot of waiting. A lot of biding my time and waiting for the right thing to come along and being luckily in a position where I could do that. And here I am. I have a fun new job. I’m going to be doing some fun things in 2022. I feel like 2022 for me is already shaping up to be a year where I just do a lot more. Oh. Unfortunately my hunting trip did get cancelled because of COVID. Which I feel like is the right move. It’s people from all over the country in close quarters. Like, we would all be sleeping in a bunkhouse together. So I’m bummed about that, but I’m hopeful that I will be able to do it in the fall. It gives me a little bit of time to learn more about hunting education. But I still have my surf trip that I’m really looking forward to. And I think it would take quite a lot for that to get cancelled because you have to show proof of vaccination for the trip. But who knows? May is a long time away. And I do feel like with my new job, honestly because it pays more – I know money isn’t everything, but at my last job, we weren’t quite living paycheck to paycheck, but it was close to that. Now I feel like with the additional income, I can be more quick to make decisions without having to worry, am I going to be setting myself up for a big financial fallout from this. Even though I do have the money in the account for it now, will I when the time comes still have that? It’s nice to feel like I can put myself out there a little bit more. Like getting a tattoo of a bear with a croissant on it on a whim. Or signing up for a big trip. So do you have an intention or a word for 2022? I know we always do that.
Joy: I don’t. Honestly, I feel like 2022 – this sounds really bad. But honestly, I’m not putting expectations on it. I had such high expectations for 2021 because of 2020 being such a crap show that 2022 I’m just like, alright, bring it on, whatever happens. I really just want to keep the pace that I established after the past six months where I’ve been really backing off and taking a step back from work. The pace of my new job is perfect. It’s exactly what I need right now. I love my team. I love the environment. I love the culture. So I think maintaining, and also trying to go with the flow. Because who knows what’s going to happen? It’s not to say I’m just setting the bar low and not living up to my potential. But I want to be a little bit more relaxed about whatever comes our way.
Claire: So my word or phrase for 2021 was “structure equals freedom.” That came from our episode with Casper ter Kuile we always talk about. If you still have never listened to that episode, I would highly recommend it. Where the concept really is we think that just having nothing but free time and choices and getting to choose moment to moment anything that we want to do is really the goal, and that’s what freedom is. But usually that turns into analysis paralysis, and the more structure you have – not saying that you have to be dogmatic about it, but if you have patterns in your life and rituals in your life, that actually can feel a lot more freeing because it sets you up to have a lot more agency around what to do with that structure. I think I’m going to stick with that. I feel like I did really well with that for the first four or five months of the year, and then I had some health stuff that happened at the beginning of the summer that just knocked me out. I’m feel like I’m finally resetting from all of that. I think I want to try that again. I really liked it the first half of last year, and then I feel like I had to just give it up when I stopped being able to control a lot about what I was able to do.
Joy: Yeah. I have a silly one that I thought of the other day. For whatever reason, I had a selfie with a really close up of my skin. And after all the talk that we had a couple weeks ago – which by the way, thank you to everyone who sent us their amazing photos of Botox or lip fillers that look natural. You look fantastic. So thank you for proving us wrong. Because we are just seeing the ones that are done poorly or their face just looks like it’s really puffy, bloated, and/or frozen. And I don’t like it. I don’t like it. I don’t like that look. Okay. So it’s done really well. So I was looking at this photo and I was like, oh man. Maybe it’s the wintertime. We’re not in the sun a lot. But I was like, I need to get more facials. I just need to get more facials. And I don’t do stuff like that for myself because I have this weird thing. It’s that whole thing of it’s self-indulgent. Whatever. I make up excuses because there’s better things to do with my money, whatever, whatever. But that’s a very silly New Year’s resolution that I want to do more facials for myself. Because that would just make me feel good. Not to be getting rid of wrinkles, but it feels good. I always love getting facials. I don’t love getting massages. Which you would think that’s a weird thing to not like massages. I prefer facials over massages.
Claire: I love facials. I hate massages because I don’t like being touched by strangers. But I do love facials. I should say – I’ve had one. It was earlier this year, and I would like to do it more. Actually I had two. I had one a couple weeks before my wedding. That was a social experience. But I had this great one at Alchemy, which they have an Alchemy in Denver.
Joy: Oh my God, that’s where I’m going. They have one in Boulder. I’m getting the resurfacing one with the Dermaplane.
Claire: That’s what I got! It’s so good.
Claire: You’re going to love it. It’s so nice. They might try to upsell you into this face oil. Buy it.
Joy: Oh really?
Claire: That’s my face oil that I love.
Claire: That’s how it came to be.
Joy: You’re like, “Buy it!” I thought you were going to say, “Don’t buy it.”
Claire: At the end, they’re like, “And this is our regenerating tea tree face oil.” You’ll be like, “Claire told me about this. I need to buy it.” I’m going to influence my influencer friend. I’m influencing you. Get the face oil.
Joy: Oh, that’s so great.
Claire: Yeah, it’s so good. If you guys live in the Denver or Boulder area, go to Alchemy and get the resurfacing facial. First, they do a little microdermabrasion where scrape off your skin and suck it up with this tiny little vacuum. It’s so satisfying. And then they Dermaplane you. It’s lovely.
Joy: Yeah. Didn’t I get you Dermaplane for your birthday a while ago?
Claire: Yeah, but I’ve never gotten the whole facial.
Joy: Oh. Did you get Dermaplane though?
Joy: And then you got the resurfacing facial?
Claire: Resurfacing facial. And you walk out like a lizard that’s just shedded.
Joy: I can’t wait.
Claire: This would be gross, but they should call it the molting facial because you definitely feel like you just molted your skin.
Joy: I can’t wait. So I’m going this week. I just need to have that feeling. I need to have the feeling of someone just taking off a layer of skin.
Claire: You need to molt.
Joy: I do. It’s time. It’s totally time. Oh, can I give an update on Cadet?
Joy: Yeah, I think I posted a couple weeks ago that we got her first report card. It was so cute. Basically, they give you a monthly report saying how she’s doing. She’s doing great. Everything that was on the report was pretty standard as far as things I already know that she does. But I was surprised that they checked the box that said “prey drive,” which means she’s chasing after things. She never did that when she was with me. I’m going to give her another month to see if she’s getting the squirrels out because she’s in a new place. But then they sent us these awesome little Christmas cards with her training class. So I posted that on our Instagram if you want to go look at that picture of her. It’s the first photo that we’ve seen of her since we dropped her off. It made me miss her so much. I kept zooming into the photo to see her face to be like, is she happy? Is she having a good time? Joy, she’s a dog. She’s having a great time. She’s with all her friends. And I was zooming into her little belly because I used to rub her belly. It was so great. It was really cute that they did that right before Christmas.
Joy: So I was really excited. And I have an update for Be the Match. I just heard today that I’ll be donating the bone marrow.
Claire: You will? You didn’t even tell me this.
Joy: I just found out! I just found out. I just found out. I literally just found out like five minutes ago.
Claire: Now I know how it feels when Brandon finds out personal things about me on my podcast. He’s like, “So I heard on your podcast that you’re really unhappy?” And I’m like, yeah, I probably should have told you that. Go on, go on.
Joy: I’m donating bone marrow in about five weeks. I don’t want to give the exact date. I try to make it kind of private. But I’m very excited because that means my patient’s doing well. I shouldn’t say “my patient.” The recipient. My patient sounds like – I don’t own her. The recipient. I guess the prayers have worked. She’s well enough that the transplant can happen in five weeks-ish. So more news on that, but I believe I will be flying out for that at a different location. If things haven’t changed, but more to come. They just contacted me, like, “Hey, can you do this date?” Her treatment team is asking if this date will work. I was like, “Oh my gosh, yes.”
Claire: That’s such a relief.
Joy: I know. I was so worried about her. My mom even asked me today. She was like, “Have you heard from Be the Match to see if they have rescheduled the donation date?” I was like, “No, I’m just really worried about her and hope she’s well enough to get this transplant.” So that’s a good sign. That’s a good sign, so I’m really excited. More to come on that.
Claire: That is exciting.
Joy: Do we have any good resolutions that people wrote in? I know you did that post yesterday about –
Claire: Yeah, so I asked people if they had their own words or resolutions that they had already made. A lot of them are similar. I think a lot of people are feeling the same way. I think coming out of 2020, we all were ready to hit a reset button and that reset button never came. So I think people are really feeling, okay, well, if we’re going to have to make our own reset button, then so be it. A lot of people, their word was consistency, discipline. I saw a lot more of that than we have in the past. Words that I think are coming from that place of, I’m sick of feeling untethered, so I’m just going to create that feeling for myself. Are you looking at the post?
Claire: Do you see any other patterns?
Joy: One that I like is to learn Spanish. We had a team of workers working on our house for the past three weeks, and I was so mad at myself that I didn’t – because most of them spoke Spanish and only spoke Spanish. I was kicking myself, like why don’t I speak Spanish. It made me so mad. I took French when I was in high school because I wanted to be different from everyone else because everyone took Spanish. And now I think that was not a good choice of me trying to be against the grain. And granted, I learned a lot of French, I lived in France. I do not regret it. But practically speaking, I’m not speaking a lot of French and there’s not a lot of opportunities to speak French around here. But there’s always plenty of opportunities to speak Spanish. So I started listening to this learn Spanish podcast. If anyone out there has really good resources of how to learn Spanish on your own, please send them to me. But someone wrote one of their goals is to learn and practice Spanish every day. So that reminded me that’s something that I really want to do. Someone said be present, be mindful, disciplined, donating blood for the first time. Swim one time per week to mix up workouts. I think that’s great. The mantra I’ve been doing lately for workouts and movement is less is more. Because diet culture mentality will always be like, “you should have done more” or “you should have done this.” Lately I’m just like, less is more, Joy. 20 minutes? Great. You did some movement. That’s awesome.
Claire: I posted something on my personal Instagram last week. I had taken a break for a week from working out because the two weeks leading up to Christmas had been really, really crazy at work. I was like, “Work got busy, so I took the week off.” Someone was like, “Thank you for normalizing that you can drop your workouts when other things are busy.” There was totally a time in my life when I would have said, “I worked out anyway,” and I’m so done with being that person.
Joy: No. No.
Claire: I think that’s what we see so much is people who are like, “I could have skipped my workout today because my meetings went over and my dinner was burned, someone threw a brick through my window. No, I didn’t.”
Joy: [laughing] Someone threw a brick through my window.
Claire: “I could have skipped my workout because of all these things, but I didn’t. I got it done. #hustle”
Joy: No excuses.
Claire: I’m not that person anymore #dontgetitdone
Joy: #sitonthecouch #chillax
Claire: Chill the f*** out.
Claire: Working out is not the –
Joy: No. And if there’s anything I’ve learned – here’s the thing. I’ve learned some things in my years. The one thing that I’ve learned, and I always quote my naturopathic doctor because she’s amazing, is if you are already stressed out and you’re exercising to be like #norestdays, you’re freaking screwing yourself. It’s a lot of undoing in the brain because you have that #norestdays still playing in our head. It’s just not true. It’s just not true. I’ve never had a day where I’ve been like, “I’m not going to work out today” or “I don’t feel like working out this week” where all of the sudden my life was upended because of it. Everything’s always fine. And you’re fine. I just hate that ticker tape that’s the drill sergeant of “you should work out.” Guys, rest more in 2022. Maybe drink a glass of water. Maybe just take some deep breaths. Calm your nervous system. And don’t be so hard on yourself.
Claire: I also feel like maybe we should have an entire podcast about what I’m about to bring up. Maybe we should do it with Laura Ligos. Which is that you can make “healthy” choices. You can eat vegetables and drink water, workout in a non-disordered way.
Claire: We have gotten to the point where we feel like that word “restricting” immediately sends up red flags. But yeah, some amount of restarting is normal and natural and needed. And some amount of prioritizing is normal and natural and needed. And some amount of pushing yourself to get something done every once in a while is normal and natural and needed. It’s not all or nothing, and it’s not like if I don’t feel like I 100% want to make this choice, then that means it’s toxic and disordered. No. It’s an in between. It’s a grey area.
Joy: It’s a grey area. Yeah, we talked about this last week with Vanessa Rissetto, which is one of the registered dieticians that we’ve had on the show, who is awesome. Highly recommend that you listen to the show. She reminds me a lot of Laura Ligos. Her mindset is very much the same and the way they talk about nutrition is the same and how we can’t get caught up in – you can still have goals to eat healthy. Highly recommend listening to that because she covers that too. We can eat healthy without it being falling into the diet culture trap.
Claire: Well you guys, that’s it for 2021, I think. That’s a wrap.
Joy: We did another year of podcasting.
Claire: Another year.
Joy: Without missing a week. I don’t think we missed one week.
Claire: No, and in fact for most of the year, you did two episodes a week.
Claire: Sometimes even three.
Joy: Sometimes even three with On Your Marks, Get Set, Bake! But TBD what will happen in 2022. We’ll see if we can maintain that pace.
Claire: I will say, I finally watched the holiday On Your Marks, Get Set, Bakes!
Joy: I did too!
Claire: Well maybe we should do a holiday –
Joy: Oh my God. Oh my God. We may have to do an extra episode because Scott and I were just browsing. I think it was on Peacock, and there’s a new baking show that’s kind of a rip-off of The Great British Bake Off, but it’s with Maya Rudolph and Andy Samberg.
Joy: Yes. And they did a show called Baking It. It’s Maya Rudolpb and Andy Samberg. They host a baking competition inspired by the holiday season. It looks so much like The Great British Bake Off, but they win like $50,000 in prizes and whatever. I think there’s five or six episodes. It’s only one season, but it looks amazing. It looks like so much fun. And especially because it’s Andy Sandberg and Maya Rudolph.
Claire: Maya Rudolph is my favorite actor.
Joy: We may have to do a little edition of the baking series because that looks like so much fun.
Claire: I was definitely watching the holiday one and thinking I have a lot to say. For example, how did Jamie ever make it on the show at all?
Joy: I know. How?
Claire: What is he even doing there?
Joy: I feel so bad for saying that, but it’s like, how?
Claire: No. At one point Prue was like literally all the other bakers would have to just not show up tomorrow.
Claire: How was he ever on the show? And why did they bring him back? Clearly, I have feelings about it, and we’ve got to do another episode of On Your Marks, Get Set, Bake! So keep an eye out for that because I just decided that we’re doing one.
Claire: Alright guys, have a great New Year’s.
Joy: Happy New Year! Thanks for hanging with us for another 365 days.
Claire: That’s crazy.
Joy: 52 episodes.
Claire: Yep. Talk to you next week.
Joy: Love you guys.
Don’t go rogue on gift giving! We both have new jobs that are going very well. And our thoughts on botox and lip fillers.
HELLO NED DISCOUNT CODE JOY for 20% OFF!
This is Joy & Claire Episode 105: Gift Giving, Lip Fillers, and New Beginnings
Episode Date: December 16, 2021
Transcription Completed: December 29, 2021
Audio Length: 52:50 minutes
Joy: Hey guys, this is Joy.
Claire: Good morning, it’s Claire.
Joy: Good morning, good morning. It is so early.
Claire: Do we sound early?
Joy: I sound a little bit sniffly. I’ve got the sniffles.
Claire: I do normally wake up this early, but not to podcast. It’s not that early, guys. It’s like 7:30.
Joy: It’s early on a Sunday to be podcasting.
Claire: It’s early to use your voice. We need to do some vocal warmups.
Joy: Red leather, yellow leather. That’s really hard to do quickly.
Claire: Red leather, yellow leather. I mean, it is and it’s not.
Joy: Rubber. Baby. Can’t do it.
Claire: Rubber, baby, buggy, bumper. I saw this meme. The caption was like, “I’m losing it.” And the exchange was a Zoom thing. Somebody’s like, “Can you talk real quick?” And the person responded, “Well, not like auctioneer fast, but I can talk pretty quickly if I need to.” I was like, I’m going to say that next time. I feel like I could talk auctioneer fast.
Joy: You absolutely could. You know, Scott’s dad did that when they were kids.
Claire: That’s a fun fact.
Joy: It’s a very fun fact. He’s a real fast talker just in general, so I could totally see it happening.
Claire: People will occasionally comment like, “I thought I had my podcast on 1.5x, and I then I realized Claire just talks really fast.”
Joy: I can’t listen to podcasts 1.5, but I can do audio books.
Claire: I’ve never even tried.
Joy: Really? Podcasts are a little bit weird to me to do fast, but I feel like audio books there’s a cadence that all of the sudden I’ll be like, oh this is too slow for me. There’s also something very satisfying about finishing a book faster than it says it’s going to take you.
Claire: Yeah, like when you arrive at your destination before Google estimated.
Joy: Totally. Totally. Are you the type of person when someone says, “Do you have five minutes?” – what is your reaction? First of all, with friendship different. But work, work relationships? “Have you got five minutes?”
Claire: I’m going to turn the tables on you because I am that person.
Joy: Oh no. I don’t like that person.
Claire: I know. I am that person. I have been working from home at this point for so long – we all have, right? Especially by Thursday, Friday, I’m just so freaking sick of typing. And I was the person – in the office, I am the person who will just come over to your cubicle unannounced constantly. I am the stopper byer, one thousand percent. That is the equivalent in Zoom world of stopping by. “Hey, can I call you real quick?” Because I just always prefer to be like, let me give you a little backstory. Here’s this question I have. Versus spending ten freaking minutes typing all that out.
Joy: That’s true, that’s true. I guess I shouldn’t generalize because there’s definitely people that I worked with that I didn’t care at all because I like them. But if it’s people that I know say five minutes, but what they mean is an hour. That’s where I get weird. Because I’m like, no I don’t have five minutes because you’re going to take an hour.
Claire: I know somebody that I used to work with that they would IM me and be like, “Do you have a couple minutes to just debrief something?” And what that meant was, you’re going to be on with me for the next 90 minutes while I just vent. It’s like, okay. There’s a time and place for that once in a while. But it became kind of a regular thing.
Joy: Yeah, that’s that person. She would call me and say, “Do you have a minute?” This was at a previous place of employment. “Do you have a minute?” And I knew. She’s going to hold me hostage on the phone for an hour. It got to a point where I actually confronted her and said, “Look, I am willing to problem solve with you. But I can’t just sit here and listen to you vent and bitch about the company for an hour. I just can’t do it.” And she’s like, “Okay,” and she kept doing it. After that, I was like, I can’t talk to you. Once I set a boundary and you cross it, done. Bye.
Claire: I have this really sweet gal that I work with you is very – how do I put this? She’s the type of person that if you were to IM her and be like, “Hey, can you talk real quick?” She would immediately be like, “Oh my God, I’m getting fired. Something’s wrong.”
Joy: Yeah, that’s very triggering.
Claire: That signals the getting sent to the principal’s office feeling.
Claire: So I had to tell her right off the bat.- as soon as I figured that out about her, I was like, listen. I’m going to do this, and I’m going to tee you up to be like, “Hey, can we talk for a minute? It’s just about this email. I have a question about whatever.” So that she doesn’t panic. But the first time I did it, she was like, “Is everything okay?” I was like, oh, I see that this is causing you a lot of stress. I’ll kind of set the expectation a little bit for people that I know that it freaks them out.
Joy: Which I think is good. I think that’s good because a lot of us carry baggage from previous places of employment. I think it has to do with age and experience and whatever. But I think right now, I’m obviously starting a new job. I’m two weeks in. And I find myself going, okay, this is a new environment. You don’t have to have a knee-jerk reaction when your boss emails you. This is not the past toxic environment anymore. I kind of have to talk myself through it of things to let go of and how I want to show up differently. If I am fearful of something instead of just making up stories in my head, being like, “I want to check things out” and being totally, totally open versus getting stressed out over it.
Claire: I actually got a new boss this week.
Joy: Oh, already?
Claire: The marketing department that I’m in, they have been on this hiring – they’re adding a ton of new roles. My role is not new. My role was a back fill. But throughout this year, they’ve added six or seven roles to the department, which is a lot. One of the roles is a director position, versus the lead. Which there previously was the lead, which most people would probably refer to as the VP of marketing. And there was a group of senior managers, but there was no director in between. That was fine when the team was smaller, but now that the team has grown, they wanted to add someone in between. So I got a new boss. It’s just very interesting to have just started, so barely know the dynamic of the person that I interviewed with. But then also to feel like, wait a minute, I didn’t interview with you.
Joy: You don’t know me.
Claire: Thankfully, I really like this person so far. And we were talking about something. We’re having this team-building activity this week where we’re all going to one of those experience kitchens where you all get together as a big group and cook a big dinner.
Joy: Oh, how cute is that?
Claire: Like a cooking lesson. It’s very my vibe, right?
Joy: So fun.
Claire: So fun. We were on a team meeting on Thursday, and somebody asked, “What are we making?” And the girl who was in charge of putting it together read out the menu. One of the things was a butternut squash galette. And someone was like, “What’s a galette?” And someone else was like, “It’s a type of pasta.” I was like, “No, no, it’s like a freeform pie. Crust on the bottom, and you kind of fold the edges.” Everyone was like, “Okay, wow.” I’m like, don’t ask the question if you’re going to make fun of me for knowing what a galette is first of all.
Joy: I know, I know, I know.
Claire: Guys, this is a pie question I happen to know the answer to, okay. If it had been a type of pasta, I wouldn’t have known. No one would know. But my new boss was like, “Oh, I knew that.” I was like, oh, we’re going to get along. A couple hours later, we were talking about something and he made a reference to something about bakeries. He was like, “Yeah, I was watching this YouTube show about this Bavarian pretzel bakery.” And I was like, oh, we’re going to be friends. [laughing]
Joy: You’re like, “We’re going to have a lot to talk about. Do you watch The Great British Baking Show?”
Claire: Oh, there have been several people so far at my job that I’m like, “Do you watch Bake Off?” And they’re like, “Oh, I love Bake Off!” And I’m like, “Cool, I have a Bake Off podcast you might want to listen to.” And they’re like, “You do?!” I am usually hesitant to tell people about the podcast because we talk about really personal stuff.
Joy: I know. I never share about it at work, but I’ll tell you a story in a minute when you’re done.
Claire: But I do tell people about the Bake Off podcast.
Claire: Because it doesn’t feel as personal. That one feels like a funny hobby that I have.
Joy: Totally. Totally, totally. Yeah. No, that’s really funny. It’s the whole new work situation. My new boss too. I guess it’s like the honeymoon phase with the job, like I’ve said before. I’m not going to sit here and say that any job is perfect, but I can already tell the vibe with this person. I’m like, oh my gosh, you’re night and day from my old boss. Just the whole company’s vibe is night and day from my previous place of employment. My nervousness to try to – I’m always that person that wants to get to know people at work. I definitely am not an introvert at work. I try to get in and participate, let’s say. I don’t want to become friends with everybody. I have really weird boundaries about that. I don’t really believe in becoming friends with people at work. Like good friends where you hang out outside of work. I’ve just never seen it work very well. Majority of the time, it ends up getting weird, especially if you go into a management role. But there’s been very few times where I’ve maintained a good friendship outside of work. Maybe that says more about me. I don’t know. Anyway, so I’m trying to participate in these meetings because I’m wanting to get to know everybody. They were talking about this creative hobby that one of my other coworkers has. My boss was like, “it’s so cool that I get to learn about everybody’s creative hobbies. I love learning that about you guys.” She’s like, “Is anyone else creative?’ And I was like, “Well, not in that way.” And she’s like, “Well, in what way?” And I was like, damn it. Why did I speak up?
Claire: Now I have to follow this up with a thing. What did you say?
Joy: I was like, “Well, I’ve been doing podcasts for the last eight years.” And then I kind of made a joke. I’m like, “Yeah, we were doing it before it was cool.” And then I’m like, dang it, why did I mention that? Now everyone’s going to wonder what I podcast about, and I didn’t want to follow up questions. I was like, Joy, foot in mouth, shut up, stop sharing. Luckily, no one asked a follow up question like, “Oh, what’s your podcast?” Just Joy, no, cut, stop. It was kind of like you’re trying to participate because no one else was participating. I will be that person. If Zoom gets really quiet and the boss asks the question and no one answers, I always feel really bad. So I’m always the one to speak up if there’s silence. My nervous chatter turned against me. I just hope nobody follows up and tries to look at what we do. That’s too soon. It’s too soon to know what we’re talking about.
Claire: I feel like when I started, they asked me for a little short bio of myself for the employee newsletter that goes out every week. I was like, what do I say my hobbies are?
Joy: Right, I think you told Jess and I. You don’t want to say podcast.
Claire: I don’t want to say my hobbies are podcasting and CrossFit because the people are going to think I’m Joe Rogan.
Joy: Exactly. Exactly.
Claire: No, no, no, no.
Joy: These two things are very – they come with a stigma. They come with a stigma.
Claire: For example, right now there is this – I don’t know if “marketing memes” are a category, but there is this marketing mem going around about personas. Like marketing personas. Everybody knows what that is, right? When you go through an exercise to figure out who the target market is for your brand or your product or whatever, and you typically write out age – like demographic exercise. So there’s this marketing meme, if you will, going around that is a picture of Prince Philip and a picture of Ozzy Osbourne. They’re the same age. They’re from the same town. They both live in a castle. They’re both multimillionaires. They are in the exact same demographic. And it’s like, “Be careful what you say about demographics.”
Joy: Yeah, yeah.
Claire: I want to say that about podcasting. There’s me in this column of podcasting and CrossFit. And then there’s like Ben Bergeron. [laughing]
Joy: Oh my gosh.
Claire: Wildly different category. So I ended up not mentioning either of those things. I put one of my hobbies as drinking coffee. I ran out of hobbies so quickly.
Joy: Baking, drinking coffee.
Claire: I did put baking.
Claire: What else do I do? But on a regular basis. And everyone at this company puts hiking. You almost can’t work there unless you like to hike.
Joy: “What’s your favorite spots?” And then all the follow up questions and you’re like, “I maybe go once in a …”
Claire: And every single person is like, “Oh, I like hiking and mountain biking and skiing” and blah, blah, blah. So I put those things. But that doesn’t set you apart at this job.
Joy: No. But it’s funny how I get all shy about some of the hobbies. Podcasting, but I have to have a disclaimer. There’s some badge of honor about being like, “But we did it before it was cool.”
Claire: Right. But then that makes you sound even douchier.
Joy: Totally douchey. Where it’s like, “She’s got a hang-up about podcasting.”
Claire: We just got to own it.
Joy: Oh God. I totally was that geek that was trying too hard to be the cool person. Super chill. Breezy. Remember that episode from Friends that’s like, “I’m breezy.” And he’s like, “You can’t say you’re breezy. It just negates the breezy.” [laughing]
Claire: Okay, we also want to talk about a quick exchange that happened right before we hit record that we just glossed right over. We were talking about Joy’s –
Joy: A little sniffly.
Claire: Joy’s sniffly. And right before we hit record, Joy had JT in the room. She records in a spare bedroom in her house that’s been turned into a recording studio. And she’s like, “Oh, one second. I just heard Scott get up. I’m going to put JT out of the room so he can go hang out with Scott.” She opened the door, and Scott’s first words were, “You sound terrible!”
Joy: I said like one word. I was like, “I’m recording.”
Claire: And he goes, “You sound terrible. Oh no.” He immediately was like, “Oh, are you sick? You feel bad?” Joy’s like, “I don’t feel bad.”
Joy: I’m good, I’m good.
Claire: “You need to go to the doctor. I’m serious.” She’s like, “I don’t need to go to the doctor. I’ve got to record. Get out of here.
Joy: I’m like, “We are recording right now.” I’m shutting the door as I’m speaking.
Claire: I cannot go to the doctor in this moment. Thank you. Let’s discuss this later.
Joy: So the backstory is – okay, you can probably tell I’m a little bit nasally. I’ve got a bug, if you will. But Scott has been really sick for the last two weeks. Around Thanksgiving, I probably mentioned this, that he did not go to Thanksgiving with us because he was so sick. He tested for COVID, tested negative. It was probably a bronchitis type of thing. But it really hung on forever. Coughing, he was in bed. Probably in all of our years being married, I have not seen him that sick. There’s a part of me that’s like, I hate to do this, but I do get a little bit of man flu syndrome where it’s like, do you really feel that bad? So he is just fresh off of these two weeks comparing what he felt and thinking he gave it to me. Let’s knock on wood. I don’t think I have what he had. I think it’s probably either a lingering something, like maybe I caught a little bit of what he had or maybe I caught something at the grocery store. Who knows? I’ve been masking and hand sanitizing, but whatever. It’s flu season. I’m vaccinated. I’ve been booster. I had the flu shot. I feel like I’m pretty good. But also, crap happens. I think this is probably something that’s a minor cold. He’s like, “You should go to the doctor now.” Because he fears that if I wait, it’s just going to get worse and worse and worse. Maybe he’s right. But I just was like, this is the difference between men and women.
Claire: I agree with you that this is the difference between men and women in some ways. But also, I think the wild outlier behavior that he’s exhibiting is the willingness to go to the doctor.
Joy: That’s true.
Claire: The majority of men are like – the stereotype says that they want to just suffer. That they feel sick but won’t go to the doctor. You’re like, “Go to the doctor.” They’re like, “It’s fine.” And you’re like, “It’s not fine. Make a choice. Go to the doctor or lock it up.”
Joy: Bless his heart, I think he’s got a little bit of the hypochondria where any little thing he’ll start making it a big deal. He’s really good about going to the doctor, thank goodness. Because as we know, that one time Brandon had – what was it? Dengue fever or something?
Claire: Dengue fever.
Joy: [laughing] One of these days.
Claire: I’m never going to live that down. It was one time.
Joy: One time.
Claire: “She made out with a hot dog. That was one time.”
Claire: He had dengue fever and I made fun of him. That was one time.
Joy: One time.
Claire: If you guys don’t know this story. Back – this would have been, what? 2013? Brandon went on this medical volunteer trip to Guatemala. They stayed in this village. At the time, he was an EMT. He kind of just came with them and checked vitals. Whatever. It was a great trip. He came home, and he had already missed the first week of school. This is when he was getting his prereqs done for nursing school. I was like, you have to go to school. You’re in Organic Chemistry. You can’t just miss two weeks of O-Chem. And he was like, “I feel so sick.” I was like, “You’re not sick. You’re fine.” He legitimately had such a bad fever. He woke up in a puddle of sweat. He was very sick, and I just had no sympathy for him. Just get up and go to school. I was like, “You probably have an ear infection.”
Claire: Go get on some antibiotics and suck it up. And then it turned out that he had dengue fever. So to this day – that was 7, 8 years ago. If I ever make fun of him for being sick, he’s like, “Remember that time I had dengue fever and you made fun of me?”
Joy: He’s always going to use that, yeah.
Claire: I’m like, come on.
Joy: That’s my fear is one of these days – my whole mantra the whole time he was sick – I was bringing him tea, bringing him food, bringing him whatever he needed. Because there were times when I was like, oh my God, are you really this sick? But you know what? It’s not harming anybody. You have to live your life. He went to the doctor. He went to the urgent care once because he was worried that it was going to turn into pneumonia. To be fair, I was worried it was going to turn into pneumonia because that’s how much it was lingering. After a good week and a half of having a horrible cough, I was like, yeah, you can go to the doctor. But anyway, that’s a really funny exchange because I literally yesterday just started having a sore throat, a little bit of sniffles. And today this morning, he’s like, “You sound horrible. Go to the doctor.” I was like, can I just record? It’s fine. I’m going to push mute a lot. I’m going to cough. I’m going to blow my nose.
Claire: It’s going to be fine.
Joy: We’re going to get through this.
Claire: We’re going to get through this.
Joy: How are you doing on Christmas shopping? You done? Because I love a countdown. We’re on the third week of December. I’m going to Oklahoma next week to see his parents.
Claire: Most shipping deadlines are at the end of this week. Hot tip, the majority of retailers, ground shipping or guaranteed 3-day shipping ends by the end of this week for most places. So if you don’t want to have to pay even ore for shipping. So yeah, I’m pretty much done. There’s probably one more thing I want to give Brandon. I need to get my mom something. I feel like moms are the hardest to shop for. And my dad, my dad’s so hard to shop for.
Joy: Your dad is?
Claire: He’s just very – and I get it, because I am also like this. Where he is very picky. I’m pretty picky when it comes to gifts. Don’t give me something just to give me something. If you don’t have a reason to think that this is something that I actually want and will like, then just ask me. Don’t go out on a limb.
Joy: Don’t’ go rogue.
Claire: Don’t go rogue. Don’t go rogue. We always talk about this.
Joy: Brandon always goes rogue.
Claire: He always goes rogue. My perfect example is one year he bought me this sweatshirt that was a zip up hoodie sweatshirt. He’s like, “I noticed you don’t have any zip up hoodie sweatshirts, so I got you one.” Well, the reason I don’t have any is I don’t like zip up hoodie sweatshirts. I like pullover crew neck sweatshirts. Don’t go rogue. If you notice I only have one type of something, it’s not because I haven’t had an opportunity to buy the other type. It’s because I don’t want the other type. And he sees it the opposite, that if you have all one type of something obviously it’s because you would like a different type to branch out. I don’t want to branch out. Let the record show, I don’t want to branch out. I like what I like. My dad is very much like that. But he is way more to the extreme. I feel like I like what I like and don’t branch out. If you do branch out, I’m not going to get mad about it.
Joy: Right, you’ll appreciate it.
Claire: I might with Brandon. I’ll be annoyed because he should know this by now. But the majority of people in my life, I don’t expect them to know that about me.
Claire: Except now that you do because you listen to this podcast.
Joy: Don’t go rogue.
Claire: Mugs and cookbooks, guys. You can’t go wrong. But my dad, the phrase that I would say about my dad is it’s not the thought that counts with John Hay.
Joy: So what types of things have you?
Claire: I pretty much just get him golf balls.
Claire: Every gift for every holiday since I was like four years old, I just get him a pack of Titlist golf balls.
Joy: Which is great.
Claire: You always need more golf balls. So I don’t know, that’s probably what I’ll get him.
Joy: With my dad, it’s always guerrilla tape and work glove. It’s all he wants. He wants guerrilla tape and work gloves. Very specific work gloves. Don’t go rogue on them. He likes what he likes. But there was a couple things I got for my parents this year. I actually think he’s going to like this. I may have mentioned this last week. I went on an Amazon wish list that was Oprah’s curated Amazon wish list. There were some really good gifts on there. There was a beanie with a light on it. My dad loves a flashlight, and he likes warmth. So he’s going to love this beanie. He’s always looking for something. He’s always got flashlights.
Claire: He’s always rustling in the corner somewhere.
Joy: Yeah, and he’s up early. He’s going into the garage early. He needs a flashlight so he doesn’t slip on the ice. This is perfect. He doesn’t have to carry something. But anyway, those types of things, I’m like, this is perfect for him because I know he would actually use this. But yeah, it’s hard to do. Would you ever buy your mom or Brandon something like tickets to the Meow Wolf or tickets to Van Gogh? An event, like something that you go to and experience.
Claire: I would do that for Brandon, probably not so much for my mom. My mom is also like – she and I share this problem of we have theories about the types of things we should like, but we never actually buy them for ourselves. Like nice shoes or something. I have one pair of nice shoes. I look at other nice shoes all the time. Or like bags, things like that. I talk myself out of it. I get that from her, talking myself out of buying. Which is fine in some ways. Yeah, I have lived my life perfectly fine with my one pair of nice shoes and my one bag. Or I look at nice shirts for work and then I talk myself out of them because I have enough nice shirts for work. That might be true. And also it makes it so that if I ever get into a situation where I actually need something new, I have analysis paralysis about it. And so she’s like that. So sometimes I’ll get her something that I know that –
Joy: That she has talked herself out of. That’s good. I can appreciate not being a bag person. I’ve never been a fancy bag person. Or purses or whatever. I use the same Lululemon festival purse that I’ve had for – I mean, I think I bought three of them in different colors because I love them so much. But I just can’t – I think when Scott and I were first dating, this was when he introduced me that he is a gift giver. One of the first gifts he gave me was an awesome pair of Nikes. Of course. And then another gift he gave me was this awesome, awesome beautiful purse that I still have. But it was just too big. I’m not a purse person. I don’t like carrying purses on your arm. I like a crossbody. I find it fascinating the people that get really obsessed with like Coach purses – you know what I mean? That to me is a very fascinating hobby, to be into purses. I would never invest that much money into purses.
Claire: Oh my gosh, it’s unbelievable. You know the crazy goop list? They have these $50,000 safari excursions.
Joy: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to be like, like vagina weights? Yeah.
Claire: All the goop lists are crazy. This really extravagant one where they list all the most elaborate gifts you could ever give, and they’re like a gold-plated submarine. You’re like, why would I want a gold-plated submarine? But someone out there wants a gold-plated submarine. So. One of the things on that was a $5,000 Air Jordan workshop where you make your own.
Joy: That’s pretty amazing. That’s pretty amazing.
Claire: I don’t feel like Scott is a DIY type of guy.
Claire: But I could imagine someone who’s so into sneakers being like really into that idea.
Joy: There’s definitely shoes where you can pick your own colors, and he’s done that before.
Claire: Customize them.
Joy: Customize them. He’s definitely done that before. Maybe he would.
Claire: I feel like it would be very specific person that would want to actually build their own from the ground up.
Joy: I think he would want to be in the room with the people and the artists that designed the shoes, that have all the lines of shoes. He would want to be in the room just watching. He went to Seattle this past week for a couple concerts. He went to the Pearl Jam museum. You guys. I’ve never seen so many pictures of Pearl Jam paraphernalia through my phone. He was so excited. He was so excited. It was really cute. If you don’t know, Scott is #1 Pearl Jam fan. He’s like, “All the jackets that Eddie Vedder wears are so small. He’s a tiny guy.” I was like, is he really? You just see Eddie Vedder larger than life. By the way, if you want a good listen, I love that Audible does this. Audible has done some amazing artist series. I think it’s only on Audible. Which I can post the link to our Audible account, which we rarely use, but you can use that link if you want a free listen. It’s called “I Am Mine” by Eddie Vedder. Basically they have this whole artist series where they go through a lot of their process or maybe how they started, talking about the songs that they’ve written, and that one was really good. So shout out to Eddie.
Claire: Shout out to Eddie Vedder.
Joy: [laughing] Shout out to Eddie Vedder. But as far as the Christmas shopping goes, there’s definitely things that I could buy one more thing, but I’m drawing a line. No, you’re done.
Claire: Yeah, that’s fair.
Joy: There’s always more you can buy, and you feel like you have to overdo it.
Claire: I feel like that with my kids. There’s always one more thing. We’re really lucky. Brandon’s family gets the kids so many presents. They get so much stuff. Last year, we literally spent like two years opening presents.
Joy: Two years?
Claire: Two hours, two hours opening present. This is way too much. So I told myself this year, we personally are only getting the kids three or four things because Brandon’s family really gets them so much stuff. Which I’m really grateful for, and I was like I don’t need to overdo this. But it’s so tempting. Like the other day I sent Brandon to Target for like paper towels, which I had preordered and paid for. I was like, “Pick them up at Customer Service. Do not pass go. Walk in. Go to Customer Service. Pick up the paper towels. Leave.” And he calls me like 20 minutes later and he’s like, “Hey, I’m at Target. I’m just looking at this microscope. I’m thinking maybe for Miles?” I’m like, “We have enough presents for Miles! Get out of there.”
Joy: This was a mission. You had very specific instructions. Do not look at the toys.
Claire: Do not look at the toys.
Joy: Oh my gosh. But it’s really hard. Like I was going on the Target app. I was trying to shop for my sister-in-law last week. I got on the Target app, and all of the sudden I see they did this line of clothing and toys and houseware with Lego. I was just like, oh my gosh. They had this really adorable puffer jacket. You could take off the sleeves. It was very much convertible. You could take off the bottom half, so it could be a long jacket, or it could be a vest. And they had this cute pocket on the front. I was like, I do not need any more puffers. I do not need any more jackets. I’m fine. But I wanted it so bad. This is how it happens. By the way, this is what I’ve been subscribing to. JK from The Muscle Feed, who’s been on the Girls Gone WOD podcast a few times. He had this great suggestion. I think we talked about this offline. We talked so much about how we love a certain thing that we’ll buy multiple shirts or whatever. The things that you like, you just keep buying the same thing. He’s like, “I don’t need any more graphic tees. So whenever I see one, I’ll look at it and if I want to buy it right now, I’m just like, ‘Nope.’ And I put that same amount of money that it costs into my savings, and I label it ‘graphic tee that I didn’t need’ type of thing.” That’s actually brilliant. You see how much money that you’re saving. Truly, it’s not about limiting. Hey, if you want something, great. Buy it. But there’s a certain level of, I don’t need any more sweatshirts or running shoes or whatever. And then you just put that into savings. I’ve been thinking a lot about that lately. So I’m going to put that puffer jacket, I’m going to put that money into savings, and we’re going to be fine.
Claire: My whole family just got new puffer jackets. Those are the last thing we needed new of. Every single person already has multiple of these, and now we have more. I can’t stop myself when it comes to puffy jackets. I just can’t.
Joy: When you live in Colorado. But here’s the other thing – you know I love fashion. You know I love makeup. You know I love all of it. And I live in a city and a state that you just don’t have a lot of opportunity – let me just say, at my age. I’m not going out. I work from home now. So I really just need to be presentable from the waist up. I feel like that is something that I’ve been thinking a lot about. Where you spend your money and blah blah blah. I just think about how something like that $5,000 Jordan designer thing. Or if you see something on the news about some type of memorabilia that sold for $20,000. I’m like, oh my gosh, that is just crazy. You have a piece of memorabilia that, sure, it’s something that they look at that as an investment. But I can’t wrap my head around spending that much money.
Claire: It’s still an item. Like, it’s a thing.
Joy: Yeah, it’s a thing. That’s where I get really caught up. Because I’m like, this is where I can never be a billionaire because I just get way too caught up in, “Oh, a private jet costs a million dollars?” Even if I had billions. Yeah, it’s whatever.
Claire: Well, first of all, when it comes to never getting dressed up. I kind of wonder in this day and age, where is a location where you get – I think anywhere you go at this point, any city in America where you need to get dressed up. Maybe there are some places where it’s a little let weird. That’s the thing. In Denver, you could show up dressed up to any restaurant, and it wouldn’t be weird. It’s just very uncommon. So maybe we just need to do that more. We need to be like, you know what, we’re getting dressed up tonight and we’re going out because I want to buy something dressy.
Joy: Which is fun, and I’m all for that. But people in Los Angeles I bet would beg to differ. Like Scottsdale. I always think of Scottsdale because every time I go there, I’m like, oh my gosh I can’t hang.
Joy: Oh yeah.
Claire: Tell me more about this Scottsdale. Because Maxine’s boyfriend lives in Scottsdale, and I just imagine it being golf courses.
Joy: Well, it is. But it’s a very wealthy part of Phoenix metro area. I don’t know. Without going into a lane of offending a lot of people, I think I would just say there’s a certain group of people – there’s very much a competition of appearances. Maybe I’m just transferring this to the group I grew up with in high school.
Claire: I can see what you’re saying, if there’s a cliquiness.
Joy: There’s a cliquiness. The appearance is very, very important. Let’s just put it that way. The appearance is very, very important. So when you go out, that is very apparent. It’s very prevalent in that city.
Claire: And I guess when I think about dressing up, I think about a cocktail type of attire type of dress up. Not a separate branch of casual where your casual wear is just really nice. I can’t imagine a world where – I was thinking about this last night. Miles had this Ninjas Night Out at karate. It was kind of like a lock-in where you drop your kid off for like five hours, and they just kind of babysit them for you. I had on effectively pajamas when I was dropping him off. It was the middle of the day. It was five o’clock. And I was thinking to myself, I’m so glad that I’m not the type of person that thinks I can’t go run errands in my leggings and my socks. I have my ski socks and my sandals on and my leggings. And my ski socks are kind of crumpled up at the bottom because I don’t want to pull them up over my leggings. And I have that big – Joy, for my birthday, got me this big, fleecy yellow sweatshirt that is very cozy and also looks like this big, fleecy, yellow thing. It’s yellow and fleece. You wear it and it’s like –
Joy: It’s a big bear hug.
Claire: But it’s bright yellow. There’s no getting around that you’re wearing this like… like it could not be more casual when it’s going with everything else.
Joy: Right, right.
Claire: It’s sort of the sweatshirt equivalent of a bathrobe.
Joy: But so cozy. This is clearly my comfort clothes. Like right now, I’m wearing –
Claire: You are also wearing the sweatshirt equivalent of a bathrobe.
Joy: Yeah, I definitely have a sweatshirt bathrobe on.
Claire: And I just had this moment of, oh man, I’m so glad I don’t care about getting dressed up to go to the grocery store or drop my kid off at karate or whatever.
Joy: Anyway. Here’s the thing. You do you, right? I guess we all – but I think when I think about the things that I want to buy and spend money on… whenever we go shopping and Scott will pick out this awesome ragged bone dress and be like, “This is awesome.” Where would I wear that? Where on earth? I wish I had a place to wear that. Maybe we should go out more. Anyway. People in Dallas are going to write in and be like, oh let me tell you a thing or two. [laughing]
Claire: Please tell us. If you have moved to a town and unwittingly showed off to drop your kid off at karate wearing leggings and ski socks and everyone around you had their outfits on and you were like, “Oh no,” please tell us if this happened to you. Because I can imagine.
Joy: I really want to know.
Claire: If I lived anywhere other than Boulder County, I think I’d have culture shock. Because Boulder is particularly very casual. You can show up at any establishment at any time in leggings and ski socks and someone else in there is also going to be wearing leggings and ski socks. You could show up in July in leggings and ski socks. Literally, I don’t think I’ve gone anywhere where at least one person wasn’t wearing socks and sandals. It’s like the Boulder thing. It’s horrible by the way, but you can’t resist it. It’s just so convenient.
Joy: It’s so convenient. Yeah, it’s so convenient.
Claire: Yeah, but if I moved anywhere else, I think I would have culture shock about it.
Joy: I would like to hear about it. Where you live, whether or not you feel pressured to do something with yourself before you walk out the door. And I’m not saying I don’t do anything. I’m just saying I don’t go out of my way. Even right now, it’s really funny because now that I work from home and I really only have to do a little bit of doing up my face and my shirt. I’m like, oh I’m always in sweatpants now. Is this a bad thing? Is this a bad thing? I have to tell a quick sad story that’s not sad at all. It’s just kind of funny and ironic. Over the past month, I’ve had really bad allergies in my eyes, and I think it’s a reaction to makeup. I’m like, this is the universe playing a cruel joke that I can’t wear makeup right now. It has been really, really bad to where even when I wear mascara, my eyes would get really red, my eyelids would get really red, around my eyes. It would just be this severe allergic reaction. Yeah, apparently this is the same thing where you can just develop an allergy over time. All of the sudden, your body can be like, “We don’t like this.” I’m like, my body doesn’t like makeup anymore? This is so sad. So I haven’t been wearing a lot of makeup because of that. But luckily, I found a few products that are helping.
Claire: Okay. I had a similar experience, and I think it had to do more with my contacts than anything and starting at a screen all day. First of all, fun fact, your body can develop and allergy to contact lenses.
Joy: Oh my God.
Claire: Over the course of your life, if you are someone who has been wearing contacts – like me. I’ve been wearing contacts since I was in third grade. But basically what happens is your body comes so, so, so, so, so sensitive to the types of crap that inevitably builds up in your contacts that even if you have the type of contacts where you throw them away every single day and put new ones in every single morning, your eyes can become oversensitive to the bacteria that just naturally occurs in your eye but builds up on your contact lenses throughout the day. So there are people out there who over time just get to the point where they physically can’t wear contacts anymore because their eyes reject them. I thought I was getting to that point like two years ago.
Joy: Oh really?
Claire: I ended up changing contact brands and having to go through five different brands to find one that didn’t do that. I also had a similar experience with mascara recently. I was asking on my personal Instagram for mascara recommendations for people who have sensitive eyes. The one that I tried that I’m really liking, it’s Tarte is the brand. It’s called like “surfer lashes” or something. I really like it, and it does not irritate my eyes as much as before. I was using a L’Oréal one. I tried the really classic Maybelline one, the pink and the green cap. I tried a lash scope, whatever that one was that Julie Bauer recommended like five years ago and I never update my –
Joy: Yeah, your mascara usually expires and you don’t use it.
Claire: No, not that I don’t buy a new one. Once I find on that I like, I’m just like, “I’m going to use this for the rest of my life.”
Joy: Oh, got it.
Claire: She recommended that to us like five years ago. And I was like, oh I actually really like this one. So I just kept buying it. Yeah, that one was bad. So if you are the type of person, if you have really watery eyes or you have contacts and you feel like you can’t wear mascara with your contacts and keep looking at a screen all day, try the Tarte mascara. I have found success with it. What did you find that worked?
Joy: Well I, first of all, I had to put – I mean, it was so bad. It was so itchy that I had to put eczema cream on my eyelids. Which, I know.
Claire: Oh my gosh, ow.
Joy: Yeah, it was really, really painful. But I got a very – I can’t remember the brand, but I can share it if people are interested. I got it at Target. I had to be very careful because obviously you don’t want that to get in your eye. But I was just like, I’m desperate. And then I got this awesome. Aveno nighttime moisturizer that has changed my life. So once I got my eyes a little calmed down, I tried a little bit of The Honest Beauty from Jessica Alba yesterday, and that has not caused a reaction so far. However, I only put it on my top lashes and barely put any on. Just to be like, I want to try this out. I mean, are the mascara companies trying to kill us? I feel like there are so many mascaras that I use – I’ve used two different ones in the past month just to see if it was… but apparently, I have to get a hypoallergenic mascara now. And I’m really worried about putting on eye makeup. Like, I can’t put on eye makeup right now. Which is really sad.
Claire: I also feel like maybe this is just our body’s way of telling us this is a really sensitive part of your body. Don’t keep putting crap on here all the time.
Joy: Yeah, exactly.
Claire: I would also like to say, I tried the Beauty Counter mascara, and it created the same reaction. So whatever it is. You know when people are like, “It’s because there are all these crappy ingredients in normal mascara. You have to try Beauty Counter.” Apparently, those ingredients were not the culprit. I also think that there is something that’s so odd about feeling like I want to wear makeup so badly that I will go through the process of my body rejecting it to find the one that works.
Joy: Yeah, it’s so weird.
Claire: Also, a lot of people recommended to me when I was putting that post about mascara that I just get my eyelashes tinted. Which I have done, and it does not create the desired effect.
Claire: I need the volume.
Joy: Yeah, I’ve had my lashes tinted before, and I feel like it’s barely like a whisper of mascara.
Claire: Right. I have dark eyelashes. That’s not the problem. I need the volume that mascara brings.
Joy: The lengthening and the volume.
Claire: I also have gotten eyelash extensions and I loved them. But they were first of all, very expensive. And second of all, who has two hours every 3-4 weeks to lay there and have them do your individual little eyelashes? Not this girl.
Joy: No, no, no. No.
Claire: No, no, no.
Joy: Anyway. I was going to give a quick Sex and the City review of the new episodes, but maybe we’ll wait for next time.
Claire: I mean, how many episodes?
Joy: There’s only two episodes out right now.
Claire: What’s your initial impression?
Joy: My initial impression is, I appreciate the effort and I appreciate the nostalgia, but I’m just really feeling old watching it. Because this was a show that most of us, if you are in your 40’s or maybe your 30’s, if you watched it, it’s probably women in their late 30’s and older who really connected with this show. I was in my mid to late-20’s when I really got into it. It was just one of those things where you feel like you’re just so parallel to your lives and can relate to them. And now it’s just kind of like – I don’t want to say it’s sad to watch it. But I get a little sad watching it where you’re trying to make “fetch” happen type of thing. I just, I don’t know how I feel about it yet. I could talk hours about what they’ve done to Miranda’s character. This woke, white woman that’s really awkward, and it’s bizarre. I’m not going to give a spoiler, but if you can get past it, the first episode I was like this is the most boring episode ever.
Claire: But there’s only two episodes, and you need to get past the first one?
Joy: So far.
Claire: Okay. I was like, this feels like…
Joy: They’re releasing more, but only two have come out so far.
Claire: I feel very strongly about shows where people are like, “You just have to get past the first season.” I’m like, I don’t want to just have to get past the first season. I want to enjoy the whole thing.
Joy: I want to enjoy the whole thing, yeah. I almost was like, I want to watch it just because I want to watch the clothes. And I do like Jessica… Sarah Jessica Parker. Joy… Sarah Jessica Parker.
Claire: I was like, Jessica who?
Joy: I always want to see what she’s doing because she’s just great.
Claire: Right. It is sort of a moment of – that was the whole show.
Joy: Fashion, and yes. And the characters really were amazing. So then I went down a rabbit hole of watching old episodes, which I spent an entire day doing that. But Charlotte clearly has had some Botox so her face doesn’t move, and that makes me feel weird. I feel the same way about Jennifer Aniston by the way. When I watch Morning Show, I’m like, your face doesn’t move.
Claire: Your face is supposed to move.
Joy: And it drives me crazy.
Claire: I feel like there are some women like that where you can tell they’ve gotten a facelift when they didn’t really need a facelift, so they’re upper lip is sort of smooshed across their face.
Joy: Yes. And it looks kind of insane. I want to know what Britney had done. Britney has the same thing.
Claire: It’s a facelift.
Joy: Is it? I don’t know how to explain it. And they all look the same.
Claire: Okay, grab the extra skin on the backside of your jawbone and pull it up under your ears and tell me that that isn’t what is happening to your lips.
Joy: Yeah. I just…
Claire: Maybe not on Britney. Maybe it’s a combination of Botox and lip filler. I think in some instances also a facelift.
Joy: Someone tell us which celebrity that has maybe done it, but I have not actually seen a celebrity that looks good.
Claire: Or counter point, you have seen it and you haven’t noticed.
Joy: That’s the thing. I want to know – Lady Gaga had some work done. I think she looked great, but she still has that lip thing that doesn’t move.
Claire: The lip thing in a trend right now. It’s a trend to have big, unmoving lips.
Joy: It doesn’t look good, you guys. It doesn’t look good to get lip filler and then all of the sudden your lips are like this.
Joy and Claire: Like this.
Claire: I feel like we talk about this a lot because now I’m feeling like we say “and you pucker your lips like this” a lot, and I can’t imagine what other context.
Joy: You look like Sebastian.
Claire: You look like Sebastian.
Joy: [laughing] I just want to know – there’s this girl I work with. She has very large lips. She has a lot of lip filler. And that’s her choice. But it’s to the point where I’m like, how do you…
Claire: I wish you could see Claire’s face. I’m not making fun. Objectively, I don’t think anyone looks better. I think they look great as they are. You know what? I have seen before and afters of celebrities who’ve had nose jobs, and I think, oh, that’s a cute nose. But I never think –
Claire: You never think, oh yes, your upper lip should be that big.
Joy: Right. Exactly.
Claire: Or, oh yes, your face should not move.
Joy: Exactly. Like Kim Kardashian – you see all the Kardashians beforehand and they’ve had so much work done. But they’re beautiful to begin with.
Claire: And that’s not even a realistic – if you basically start from scratch and rebuild your face –
Joy: Rebuild your face, right. They have all rebuilt their entire bodies. They’re robots. But when I look at them when they were kids – or at least teenagers when you could see what they actually look like. They’re cute. Okay sure, now their noses are slimmer or whatever. But I’ve yet to see someone who’s had lip injections where I can’t stop staring at their lips because their lips don’t move. They look like they got stung by bees, and their lips are swollen.
Claire: And maybe if you’re someone out there and you’re like, hey, I get lips done and no one has ever noticed…
Joy: They’re just not telling you.
Claire: I will say – for example, I definitely know of some people, friends that I have who I know get lip filler but you would never know.
Joy: Okay. Really?
Claire: Yes. And I also think, to bring up Julie Bauer again, when she first started getting – and I don’t want to comment on Julie. She’s our friend. But I will say, she is someone who when she did her first blog post about lip filler, I was like, oh my gosh. I never would have thought that she was getting lip filler. I appreciate that she is very open about the injections that she gets and is realistic and is like, hey, my face looks like this because I get work done. And I love that about her that she’s very open about that. So that other people aren’t like, “If I start eating Paleo, I will have perfectly smooth skin.” No, there’s more to it than this. I remember specifically the first time she was like, “Yeah, I’ve been getting lip filler,” I was like, oh, I never would have known. So there are people out there that I think can accomplish it. But I also think right now there is a trend where it is the look. The look is to look like you’ve had lip filler.
Joy: Right. That’s interesting, yeah.
Claire: The look isn’t a natural look that you’re going for. The look that people want is, oh I want the bee sting look.
Joy: Yeah. Maybe… hmm… good for you, not for me.
Claire: Good for you, not for me. I agree with that.
Joy: Good for you, not for me. I think I just also appreciate –
Claire: You also have really big lips, I would say.
Joy: Yeah, I know.
Claire: You have big lip privilege.
Joy: But I don’t have big boobs, and I’ve never been like – I considered it…
Claire: Okay, you considered it. Every small chested girl out there has considered it. I had fake boobs for like five years. Hated it, got them taken out. In my 20’s, in case you didn’t know that about me. Now you do. But I have really thin lips. Particularly my upper lip is really thin. And I’ve definitely thought about it. What if I do just a little bit? I’ve done this in the mirror before where I lifted up my lip a little bit.
Joy: Yeah. But just –
Claire: But is it worth the risk of going too far?
Joy: Yeah. I don’t know.
Claire: And it’s so expensive.
Joy: It’s so expensive.
Claire: It’s like $500. I wish you guys could see what I’m doing. Don’t we all? We stand in front of our mirror and we hold up our skin and wonder what it would look like. Or we look at the filter on Instagram stories and are like, oh that’s what I would look like with a nose job.
Joy: Yeah. Now they have a filter where they give you lip injections.
Claire: Yeah, actually that filter has made me be like, maybe I should get lip injections. I look good.
Joy: That filter has probably caused a lot of people to get lip injections.
Claire: Yeah. You know what, you do you.
Joy: You do you.
Claire: If you want that lip, go get it.
Joy: I think when I see that – going back to the Sex and the City episode, it’s distracting to me. Because I know what they looked like before. So I can’t help but stare at what happened to your face. No one’s getting out of this life alive. And no one’s getting out without aging.
Claire: I always think about that quote that’s like, “Growing old is a privilege not afforded to many,”
Joy: So true.
Claire: Yeah, we aren’t all going to have the privilege of growing old.
Joy: So true.
Claire: Embrace it. And also, don’t overthink it. If you want to go get an injection in your face, by all means.
Joy: That’s fine. Yeah.
Claire: Joy is going to sit over here with her big lips and judge us all.
Joy: I really will.
Claire: For needing to get work done and we’re going to have big lips. Joy is just genetics. She’s going to be sitting over here wearing her bold lipstick while the rest of us look like we’re drawing on our faces with Crayola marker. If I wear bold lipstick, it looks like I’m a picture that a kid drew to outline their mouth.
Joy: [laughing] You do not.
Joy: You do not. [laughing]
Claire: It’s a line.
Joy: you do not look like that. You do not. Oh my gosh, okay.
Claire: Let’s wrap it up. Alright, guys. Well you can find us, if you want to have even more Joy and Claire in your life, find us on Instagram @joyandclaire_. You can go to joyandclaire.com. We have all our episodes there. We have our gift idea you can check out if you’re looking for some last-minute gifts. A lot of our episodes are transcribed on our website, if for some reason you just want to read through them. They’re not transcribed in real time. They get transcribed a few weeks later by our awesome transcriptionist, transcriber Caroline who lives in Thailand and is wonderful and transcribes all our episodes. You can email us at firstname.lastname@example.org. Tell us about your really realistic lip filler.
Joy: Send us some pictures of how realistic your face work has been.
Claire: Joy, get off your lip high horse. Some of us need a little bit of help.
Joy: Put me in my place.
Claire: Yes, please. And that’s it for this week. Have a great weekend.
Joy: Love you guys.
We talk about Thanksgiving, saying goodbye to Cadet (SO MANY TEARS), Claire’s new job and Joy’s new job!
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This is Joy & Claire Episode 103: Feeling Emotions
Episode Date: December 2, 2021
Transcription Completed: December 13, 2021
Audio Length: 47:32 minutes
Joy: Hey guys, this is Joy.
Claire: And this is Claire.
Joy: And this is Joy and Claire. One of these days, you should say, “That is Joy.” And I could be like, “That is Claire.”
Claire: Oh my gosh.
Joy: We could just confuse people even more. Isn’t it funny when people write us and they think – if you do a story, and they think you’re me and I’m you? That always freaks me out. I’m like, all this time you thought we were – just to be clear, I’m the tall one with the brown hair. Claire’s the shorter one with the red one.
Claire: Also sort of brown hair. I mean, my hair is getting browner. People will refer to me as someone with brown hair. I identify as a redhead personally.
Claire: I self-identify. I had to live my childhood life as a redhead.
Joy: Well, and I see you up close. It’s red hair.
Claire: Up close, it’s red. In pictures, it’s brown.
Joy: Yeah, I could see that. Yeah. Don’t take away the title of the redhead.
Claire: Do not. Exactly.
Joy: And neither of your children are redheads.
Claire: Not even a little bit.
Joy: Are you disappointed in that?
Claire: So disappointed. I will never get over it, as a matter of fact. They all have Brandon’s dumb hair.
Joy: Where does the lineage of redhead come from?
Claire: So both your parents have to have it.
Joy: Oh, got it.
Claire: It’s like the most recessive. Blonde is recessive, but redhead is even more recessive. So Brandon is blonde with some brown in his family. We thought he might have some red in his family, but apparently no. But both my dad had read hair when he was little, and my mom still has red hair.
Joy: Does she?
Claire: Well, it’s light to medium. Because she had red hair – I guess she’s kind of going grey, as it were. And my dad had red hair that got darker over his lifetime as well. But no, both of my kids have Brandon’s dumb hair. Brandon has this really straight, fine –
Joy: Is Brandon going to listen to this and be really offended?
Claire: I tell him this all the time.
Joy: Okay. His dumb hair.
Claire: His dumb hair. I’m like, “Our kids have your dumb hair.” His hair is great. Brandon has a nice, thick head of hair. But it’s the most unremarkable color. It’s just “bronde.”
Joy: It is very much “bronde.”
Claire: And it’s so fine and kind of fluffy. It really doesn’t have any texture. I have great hair, in my opinion, which I respect.
Joy: You have great hair. Own it.
Joy: Own it.
Claire: I have great hair, and Brandon has less great hair, and both of our kids got his dumb hair.
Joy: People who don’t know Claire up close, which is not a lot of you, your hair is so thick. You have so much hair.
Claire: Super thick. Wavy. It has a great natural wave. It really does what I want it to. It holds a curl. It holds a wave.
Joy: You rocked an undercut like five years ago, and your hair still looks thick.
Claire: I literally shaved off half of my hair and still had more than enough hair.
Joy: So how was your Thanksgiving?
Claire: First of all, I need to know from the public. Which part of the word do you emphasize, and from where in the country are you? Do you say Thanks-GIV-ing? Or do you say THANKS-giving?
Joy: I’ve never paid attention to that. When did you realize that was a thing?
Claire: My stepbrother says THANKS-giving? He’s like, “Hey, are you coming over for THANKS-giving?”
Joy: Oh, okay.
Claire: Most people I know say Thanks-GIV-ing. Like, “Are you coming over for Thanks-GIV-ing?” But he, it’s the “thanks.” He grew up in the south, and he says, “Y’all coming over for THANKS-giving?”
Joy: Well, that’s a southern lilt.
Claire: Right, inflection. I had never – “Y’all coming over for THANKS-giving?” Thanksgivin’. “Y’all coming over for THANKS-givin.” The first time I heard it, I was like, “THANKS-giving? Thanks-GIV-ing, is that what you mean?” So I’m just curious. If anyone wants to write in with –
Joy: I’m going to guess it has so much to do with being southern. I always want to know how East Coast people say things. Because my dad’s from Jersey, and we have so many words from him growing up in Jersey. Anyway, I digress, but I’d love to hear –
Claire: Hold on. I have a dad lexicon question.
Claire: I feel like all dads have this – and moms and grandmas and grandpas. What are the things that your parents say instead of swearing?
Joy: I love that question. My dad says “dadnummit.”
Claire: That’s what my dad says too. “Dagnummit.” Or “dagnammit.” My grandma, my mom’s mom, used to say, “I swan!” Instead of “I swear to God,” she’d be like – like an interjection “I swear to God,” not like an actual swearing to God. Where instead of like, “I swear to God, if you do that one more time.” She’d be like, “I swan!” She used it both in the negative and in the positive. If you were playing Bingo with her and you got a Bingo for the tenth time in a row, it was a positive interjection as well. She could swan that you got a bunch of Bingos.
Joy: I love it. I want to hear these so bad. So you can write in or voice mail it.
Claire: I think we might just put this as an Instagram story today.
Joy: Instagram story today. That’s actually a great question. And I want to hear in different languages too.
Claire: Or even just a voice memo.
Joy: Or even just voice memo it because I love hearing different language swear words.
Claire: Does your mom have one? I feel like my mom never really had one.
Joy: She does, but I don’t want it to be offensive. We grew up Catholic, but whenever she got upset, she would say, “Jesus Christmas.”
Claire: Jesus Christmas? That’s adorable.
Joy: Yeah. I’m not saying she took the Lord’s name in vain, but when she would be upset, she would be like, “Jesus Christmas.”
Claire: To all the Catholics listening, you know we’re in the clear, right?
Joy: Not only that, my mom is a devout – I mean, guys, she grew up [emphasizing] Catholic. This is not just a cafeteria Catholic. She was very much a Catholic. So she is allowed to say “Jesus Christmas” when she gets upset.
Claire: She’s adorable.
Joy: I can still tell that she doesn’t like – because I have a massive potty mouth. Yeah. And I try very hard to not swear around her, but every once in a while it slips out and I can just tell it hurts her heart. I just want to be like, “Mom, I’m really a good person, I swear.”
Claire: She’s not mad. She’s just disappointed.
Claire: Okay, well, now that we’ve had two whole tangents, my Thanksgiving was good, We went to my dad’s house, I only ended up making two types of pie. I made cranberry curd and apple pie.
Joy: It looked great.
Claire: Okay, the cranberry curd was a little disappointing actually. It looked amazing. And Tilly warned me about this on Instagram stories. Tilly, our baking friend in Denver. She warned me that the flavor was not going to – she was like, “I made it, and the flavor was not as complex as I wanted it to be.” I fully agree with that conclusion, with that judgement.
Joy: Like it didn’t taste how you thought it would taste.
Claire: It just tasted very – eh, okay. That’s cranberry, I guess. It just could have had so much more going for it. I feel like I don’t really know what would give it that. It almost tasted like it needed – like, it wasn’t rich like you wanted it to be. It just felt very –
Joy: Texture-wise, or taste-wise?
Claire: The texture was fine. The taste was just very, eh, it was okay. My apple pie was very good. I still really want to make a pumpkin pie because I love pumpkin pie. But my stepmom makes pumpkin cheesecake, which I also really love. And that’s mostly what I ate. It was great. What about you?
Joy: Well, you know. I think I mentioned last week, we went to Westcliff for Thanksgiving. Scott got sick, so he had to stay home. It was so sad. But here’s the thing. I’m not putting any rumors out there, but he did get the booster shot on Saturday, and we were supposed to leave on Tuesday. I ended up staying until Wednesday to see if he was going to get better, but he thinks – I don’t know. We don’t know if was a reaction to the vaccine. But hey guys, get your vaccine. We don’t know. But he got very, very sick. Ended up getting bronchitis. And so I don’t know if it was just a weird –
Claire: I think there’s something to be said for – the vaccine, it’s like anything. If you have multiple things going on in your immune system at once, it can be a recipe for a tough time.
Joy: Yeah. So whether he got it in the public – but we’re very careful. Who knows?
Claire: Obviously he did not get bronchitis from the COVID vaccine because that’s impossible.
Joy: Right, right. Exactly. So just the timing was just very, very sucky because he felt a little bit off from the booster and then he got sick and had to stay home because obviously people didn’t want to get sick. And the doctor said, yes, please do not go around people. His cough just sounded horrible. Poor guy was sick over Thanksgiving. We felt so bad. He felt horrible because my whole family came to town, and he hasn’t seen them in a long time. So overall, that was just a bummer. But I had a great time in Westcliff. JT and I drove down to see my family, spend it with my nieces and nephew. I brought a bunch of Legos for us to do while we were there. I don’t know if anybody remembers last year. I posted the Lego VW bus that Scott got me for Christmas. You may remember last year when I was diagnosed with Graves’ Disease and I had to take medical leave, Scott thought that Legos would be a great way for me to pass the time. So he started just buying me a bunch of Legos. And I was like, no, no, no, I don’t want to be the Legos person now. You don’t need to buy me Legos from now on because I’m not going to do them forever. But I’m happy to do a set of Friends Legos while I’m sitting here on medical leave. Anyway, he bought me this huge VW bus. I took it out sometime in the spring to sit down and do it. And if you’re a Legos aficionado, this was way expert-level advanced, meaning you had to separate the pieces. Whereas the more beginner/intermediate, they put every phase bagged already for you, so you don’t have to go searching for the pieces. I don’t have that much patience to sort through all the pieces. So when I brought this bus in, my nephew sat down immediately, took it all out. He finished it in under five hours. I was like, you are amazing. He’s 15 years old. He just hunkered down, put his head down, got the whole thing done. It was amazing. We played a lot of games. We watched movies. We went outside and played. We ate good food. My parents were just so cute. And of course, yes, my mom did cry. We were doing what you’re grateful for around the table.
Claire: Oh, you had to know she was going to cry.
Joy: I can’t remember how she started this tradition, but one of the traditions is she puts these two little beans in front of you and you have to go around with this little cup. And you put the beans in the little cup and you pass it on. And every time you put a bean in the cup, you say what you’re grateful for. So everybody was putting their beans in the cup to say what they’re grateful for. And when it got to her, she just started crying. We were all – not like making fun of her, but we were all like, “Mom! It’s us.” It was just really cute. I told you guys she was going to cry because she was going to be so overwhelmed with just the family love. But it was so good to see my brother, my sister-in-law. I’m very lucky in that department because I get along super well with my sister-in-law, and my nieces are just adorable. They just love JT. My nephew is just the sweetest 15-year-old. I’m like, how are you so big. But yeah, overall, it was a really, really good trip. Other than we really missed Scott. It was a success. We saw some deer.
Claire: Saw some wildlife.
Joy: We got a lot of snow the night before Thanksgiving. The whole Thanksgiving day was building snowmen. My dad got to plow all the snow, so we helped him put the plow in the truck. I’m sitting there thinking, my dad is 80 years old. He just turned 80 a couple weeks ago. I aspire to be him at that age. He’s just amazing. He’s Ronnie Z. It was really good.
Claire: Also for those of us who celebrate Hanukah, it’s Hanukah right now. Which is awesome, so happy Hanukah. I don’t celebrate Hanukah, but I think it’s pretty cool. I’ve been talking to a friend who celebrates Hanukah. She’s like, Hanukah’s actually not a super major holiday in the Jewish religion. But because it’s so close to Christmas, it just sort of gets lumped into – and you get a holiday, and you get a holiday. So yeah, happy Hanukah if you celebrate Hanukah. So speaking of JT coming down with you to Westcliff and your little road trip, how is JT doing – give us the very short, however much you can tell us without feeling emotional about it recap of how drop-off went with Cadet and what will happen next.
Joy: Yeah. It’s funny, when you said that, I was like, oh God, don’t cry. If I cry, whatever. I don’t think I’m going to cry. I’m three weeks out from this. But I certainly couldn’t talk about it – I think we recorded like the next day for Great British Bakeoff. And I texted you. I was like, “Whatever you do, just don’t ask how I’m doing.” It was one of those moments where if someone asked how I was doing, I was going to lose it. Just don’t talk about it. Don’t ask me how I’m doing. And we’ll be fine. We’ll get through it. But for those of you, just to recap, we raised a service dog for the past 19 months. Her name is Cadet, and we turned her into advanced training on November 12 in Oceanside, California. We flew there with Cadet. We stayed overnight in Oceanside. Actually, we stayed a couple nights. But Friday the 12th was her turn-in day, and she will move on to advanced training. I’ll talk about that in a second. But getting there, I think what happened was, you know, being a puppy raiser – this was our first time actually raising a puppy from puppy stage to then turn-in. So I have all these puppy raiser friends who a month and a half beforehand are like, “I bet you’re feeling like the clock is ticking and the countdown has begun.” We really felt that. I know that I talked about this on the show too of I just wanted it to be over. Because the anticipation was so hard. You’re sitting there with this amazing dog, and you can’t help but think about everything that you’re going to miss about them. So when we got there – actually, back up. I was fine until we left the house. So everything was fine in terms of I was emotionally okay. I was amping myself up – this is what she’s meant to do, all the things you’re trying to tell yourself about the whole process. My parents came in to watch our house and our animals while we were gone and celebrate my dad’s birthday because it was the week of my dad’s birthday. So we’re packing up that morning to go to the airport and it hit me that she’s not coming back to the house with us. It was so funny – I can laugh about it now. I was holding it together just fine. We’re getting all of our stuff ready. We’re packing up our stuff, the usually rummaging around the house while you’re getting ready to leave. And all of the sudden, my dad’s rummaging around doing something and he says, “Yeah, do you have any plastic gloves around or rubber gloves around here?” You know when you get so emotional and you’re trying to keep it locked up, and I couldn’t anymore. All morning, I was fine. But that moment when he asked me that was when things were starting to just spill over, and I just started bawling.
Claire: He’s like, “It’s fine.”
Joy: “Oh my God, I’ll find the rubber gloves on my own.” But I just started bawling and after that moment I couldn’t stop crying. But my rule throughout this whole thing was just feel your feelings. It’s like the whole thing with my job. Just feel your feelings throughout everything that’s changing. So we made it to the airport, getting on the flight. I was so nervous to fly with her because she’s never flown before. She did great. But turn-in was awesome. We had a really good night that night with her. We stayed on the beach, so we got to do a nice walk on the beach with her. We ordered in. We just ate food in the hotel. We had a really awesome hotel room of course because Scott is Scott and picks great rooms. We had our own little deck, so we sat outside with her that morning. It was so interesting because the whole time I kept thinking, I just don’t want to lose it when we talk to her trainer. I knew we were going to meet her trainer, and this is the trainer that will be with her for the entire advanced training. I was like, I just don’t want to cry in front of the trainer. I want to be able to hold it together for the trainer. In my mind, I’m thinking, maybe Scott will be the one to talk to the trainer and I’ll just be the one kind of losing it. In my mind, I’m like, if all else fails, Scott can talk to the trainer and I will be quietly losing it in the corner. So we get there, and I just go into this manic phase where I’m super high energy. I think I did that because it was this protective – I just have to stay pumped up so I don’t lose it. And not only that – and I’m sure he would be fine telling everybody this. As we’re driving up to Canine Companions, the actual building, I’m having all this nostalgia because this is where I trained with JT. But I look over and Scott’s bawling his eyes out. I’m like, no. I think this is when I texted you.
Claire: Lock it up, Scott.
Joy: I think this is when I texted you because I was like, oh no, oh no. We are almost to turn-in and he’s bawling. I’m like, okay, so one of us has to be the one to talk to the trainer. It’s got to be me. Yeah, that was really hard. We walked in, and they have this cute little table set up with bags for the puppy raisers, like goody bags. They take her collar off, and you take her collar and they put the professional training collar on, which is basically just a blue CCI collar with her graduate training tag. It’s almost like a graduation gown on the dogs. You go take pictures, and then you go in and meet the trainer. The trainer, her name is Grace. She’s so sweet. I told her I was a graduate. And I got to see JT’s trainer. Her name’s Sarah. She’s amazing. The trainers are so, so, so, so cool. Talked to Grace for a while. Told her all about Cadet, her strengths, her weaknesses, how she is as a dog. And the whole time, Scott was just quiet. I kept turning to him like, “Did I miss anything? Is there anything else?” I was just a mile a minute. And he was mute. He would not talk. He just kind of looked at me like, no. And we all had masks on of course, so I couldn’t really see his facial expressions. They take the dog, goes off into whatever land of advanced training, and then we left. Yeah, it was the hardest thing. Truly, I think it was the hardest thing we’ve ever done. Afterwards –
Claire: And then you went shopping.
Joy: Um, yeah. We were in California. I love California. But I don’t really remember it. It was a blur because it was like the whole time you’re just thinking – shit, I don’t want to cry. [tearing up] I was just so focused on her. As much as I love California, I was like I’m so glad we didn’t freaking go to Disney Land. I would have been so distant. But afterwards, we got in the car and we’re just crying and sad. Scott was crying. I was like, “Let’s go shopping because I need to do something else.” So we went shopping. We were just both, I think, felt like we had been hit by a truck. You know that this is what they’re meant to do, but it was one of the hardest things I think I’ve ever done. The only way I can describe it is, you know when you go through a really bad breakup and you miss the person because you know they’re still out there. You want that person in your life. It felt like a really bad breakup, but also it felt like a loss, like a pet had died. That’s the weirdest place to be in because you know they’re still out there. Of course, being at CCI, I love them so much and I know they take really good care of the dogs. But yeah, it was really, really hard. So we went to Lululemon. We’re both crying our eyes out. The second we go in Lululemon, I’m like, just focus on the clothes. We actually got some really good deals. They had an amazing sale, like a popup store. Scott is getting – this is in his element. I think he locked it up. And then we went and got dinner, and Scott went for a run on the beach and I stayed in bed and just cried. The next few days were really hard, to come home and not have her there. That was really difficult. I think the overall experience is like, oh, now I know what to expect. I know it’s never going to get easier if we do this again, but it was so worth it. And now I know why people just puppy raise over and over again. You just need to have that energy around. JT is fine. I knew he would be okay because he’s JT and he adapts to everything. But he was kind of weirded out, and I think he could tell that something was up. It’s so interesting now being on this side of it to be like, now I get it. Now I get why all the puppy raisers texting me every day like, “How are you doing?” I was like, yeah, that was brutal. And one of my puppy raiser friends, she’s like, “Yeah, when we raised our first puppy, I thought I was about to crack in half when we turned her in.” That was the perfect way to describe it. I literally felt like I was cracked in half. I just laugh at how now I’m like, let’s do it again, let’s sign up for another dog. But it’s because of that dichotomy of being able to raise such an amazing dog, hopefully for someone who needs that dog. And then we immediately got home and turned in our puppy raiser application to do it again. I was connected with a couple other dogs in the community that needed help. Someone needed to puppy sit, so we puppy sat for a dog named Vespa. There’s a woman in a wheelchair just down the street from me who has a service dog. Her name is Olly. The owner is on bed rest right now, so she needs someone to walk Olly while she is down and out and recovering. I’ve been able to kind of fill that void. Even though we have JT. Cadet took up a lot of our time. That was something that was really hard to come back to. I freaking hate memories on Facebook and Instagram because every time I pull up a memory right now, it’s a picture of her. It literally punches you in the gut. So the next steps is we’ll get our first puppy report. We already got an introduction of here’s what the dogs are going to be doing. We all know that she’s going through advanced training, but we’ll get our first official report on progress of how she’s doing December 15. So we’re counting down the days for that. And that basically says, here’s her strengths, here’s her weaknesses, here’s what we’re working on, that type of thing. And then every month you get a report on how they’re doing. I do know within the first month of being at advanced training, they likely will select if the dog is going to become a breeder dog. So they will then just live with a family in California. Any dog that’s chosen as a breeder dog has to live in the California area next to a Canine Companions facility. If that’s the case and she became a breeder dog, she would live in California. We’ll find that out probably within the next few weeks. Other than that, we just keep getting reports to see how she’s doing, and then she could be sent home at any time, as I’ve said before. That’s where we’re at. The waitlist to be a puppy raiser again is probably 6-8 months. We’re not worried about the timeline on that. We’re not worried about a break, just because we’re both starting new jobs right now and we don’t want to raise a puppy right away. But that is the emotional rollercoaster of turning in a Canine Companions dog. Sorry, I didn’t think I was going to cry. I’m really pissed that I did.
Claire: It’s okay.
Joy: Emotions are normal.
Claire: Emotions are normal. That was a big transition that you’re still going through. Also, remind everybody what would happen if they decide that she is not going to continue with advanced training for whatever reason. I’m always curious, what are the types of things that result in a change of career.
Joy: Yeah, a change in career dog. So most of the time, it’s things that you can’t train out of a dog such a startle response or an aggression towards something. An example would be a dog who barks at statues every time it sees a statue or goes by a statue. One of the things I’ve always been concerned about with Cadet, which I feel confident they can work on with her. But any time I’d be walking and a loud, loud, like one of those loud cars with the loud mufflers or a very loud muffler motorcycle would go by, she would just stop in her tracks and wait for it to go by. So she didn’t get scared, but she would just stop like, “What is that? I’m not moving until that goes by me.”
Joy: Yeah. And she would recover quickly. That’s usually what they’re looking for is how fast the dogs recover when they do get startled. Or are they obviously stressed. Because they never want to put any of these dogs in any type of situation where it’s going to be stressful for them because that is just not good for the dog. Something like that. They do a lot of startle responses. They do a lot of training around surfaces, so like if a dog won’t go over a grate. They train us a lot when we’re training puppies to go over a ton of different surfaces so they don’t get weird about their paws. Side note, the funniest thing to watch is a dog that has never been on sand. When they go on sand, they freak out. It’s really funny. They get all excited and weird about sand. But she was used to that. Yeah, just go to a lot of playgrounds and see how your dog reacts to sand. I would say those are the main things. If they just have something that it’s more like a personality trait and they can’t train it out of them, that is when they would say it’s going to be too stressful on the dog moving forward. There’s another thing they call kennel stress, which is the dog is not responding to the structure of training and it just really wants to be a pet dog. So that’s something that they are always monitoring, which I also love about them. They really make sure that these dogs are having the time of their lives, getting a ton of play, a lot of structure so the dogs know what to expect. There have been dogs who have been sent home for health reasons as well, so they do very thorough exams. They call that a medical release. Something that could be potentially a risk for a lot of vet bills or vet visits in the future, then that would be something that would disqualify the dogs. Things of that nature.
Claire: Alright, well, we’re proud of you, Joy. Can’t wait for your next puppy.
Joy: God. Lord almighty. Man.
Claire: I’m glad you have JT and JT is doing so well.
Joy: We are giving him so much attention. He is loving it. He loves Cadet, but he’s not moping around. He’s a dog that adjusts and adapts very quickly. I posted a really sweet. It’s kind of like a poem. I’ll have to post it again if people missed it. One of my really good friends raised a puppy, and she also has a facility dog. She works at the VA. She wrote this really awesome response to “how can you give them up?” It’s just so well said. It basically says, every single time when you tell someone that you’re raising a service dog, they’re like, “Oh my gosh, you have to give them away.” Of course, that’s the first thing people ask. I’ll have to post it again because I don’t want to cry again. But it’s really well said about why we do what we do. I think about it all the time. It has so much to do with how nothing is really permanent in life.
Claire: Right, it says like, every person, everything that you come into contact with will leave your life at some point. Sometimes you’ll know about it ahead of time and other times you won’t. As puppy raisers, you’re lucky to know exactly how that’s going to happen.
Joy: Exactly, yeah. So it’s really sweet. But that’s one thing where you’re kind of like, yeah – I thought about that a lot too when I was raiser her. Nothing is really permanent in life. It’s a good reminder of that. Anyway, if anyone has questions about it and if you’re thinking of puppy raising, I’m happy to answer questions. It’s one of the best experiences and hardest experiences.
Claire: As someone who – obviously when you first applied to become a puppy raiser, that was before the pandemic when you applied. But you picked her up literally a couple weeks into COVID. So Scott was home or you were home. Life looked really different than normal life during this puppy raising season. And now you have a new job, which we’ll talk about here in a second, where you are going to be working from home. Would you say that someone who does not work from home or does not have a little bit of a flexible schedule could be a puppy raiser?
Joy: It would be hard. I think Canine Companions would say otherwise. I’m just one puppy raiser. I’m sure other puppy raisers would disagree. I would say for your first time raising a puppy, maybe plan to be home the first two weeks where you’re home all the time. I don’t think they stated enough – and I knew it was going to be full time, but I don’t think they really prepared us for how much time it’s going to be for at least the first month even. Scott and I talked after two months in. Like yeah, if we were to do it over again, we would have taken the first two weeks off of work to be fully time, to get into a schedule and then figure out your groove. Yes, then it’s doable. But it’s a lot of time. It’s a lot of work. Especially because these are service dogs in training, you can’t just put them in a crate all day. You can for certain amounts of time, but they need a lot of attention. I would say for your first time, try to plan it to where you have some time off available. But then of course as they get older, just like with any growing thing, they mature, they need less attention, they are easier to manage and easier to train. But when they’re tiny babies, it’s 24/7. Cadet never got to be a good sleeper, so I was up every single night the entire time we had Cadet. She never slept through the night.
Claire: Do you think that’s something they would release her for?
Joy: No, not at all. Because the other thing I think is she was just on a different sleep schedule. I know it because we got into a bad habit of putting her to bed really early because we were just so tired that we would put her in her crate early. But then she’d get up early. We actually sat for a couple dogs, and some dogs will just go back in their crate and go back to bed. She was not one of them. She was just like, I’m up, we’re up, life is going on, what’s going on, it’s 5am.
Claire: That’s how River is. When she’s up, she’s up. That’s how Evie is too. Whereas – it’s funny. Brandon and Evie, once they’re up they’re up. Miles and I, we could go back to bed any time. River, once she’s up, she’s up. It’s totally a personality thing.
Joy: Yeah, it’s totally a personality. One of the dogs we dog sat, we put her back in the crate, she’ll sleep for another four hours. I was just like, oh my gosh, we did not get that dog. So depends on the personality, but I would say if you are thinking about puppy raising, prepare for it to be a full-time job for at least the first couple months. It does get easier. You get into a routine, just like with anything else. But I don’t want to sugar coat it. It’s a lot of work.
Claire: We occasionally will get folks who reach out and are like, I’m interested in doing this. I always have been so drawn to wanting to train a service dog. I’m inspired by it. But I would never be able to take my dog to work. Or, but here’s this huge roadblock in my schedule. What are other ways that people can support CCI?
Joy: You can see if there’s a volunteer chapter in your area. They have a lot of local chapters, so you can look on Facebook to see if there’s local Canine Companion groups. There’s a ton of them for Colorado, so I’m in all of those. You can support people by offering to transport dogs. You have to get on an official puppy sitter list if you want to watch a dog. And I would say that’s not usually a top thing that you can do to help because there’s so many people that can help out with watching dogs. The other thing is just spreading the word about Canine Companions. I would say obviously on the top of my list that I will always advocate for is educating people about not buying fake service dog vests, making sure that people understand how it impacts people with service dogs if they are using fake vests for a dog that was not trained to be a service dog. Those types of advocacy things I think are really important. Or you can donate. Donate money. They always need money. They’re a nonprofit.
Claire: So onto the next big life update. You started your new job today. We are recording this on Monday, as we typically do. It’s been a while. In the amount of time between you accepting this job and starting this job, I interviewed for, accepted, and started, and worked for a month at a new job.
Joy: Yeah, I accepted it in September I believe and then I started it today. But really quick because I’ve been talking – how is your job going?
Claire: Yeah, sure let’s start with that. I feel like last episode I talked the whole time, and this time is Joy updates. So my job is going well. Like I said, this is the start of my fifth week. I’m working for an outdoor clothing brand. It’s just been really crazy to start at this time of year. My first day was November 1, so we’re three weeks out from Black Friday. The holiday season I think for most of the apparel industry, fashion industry, customer goods industry – literally, most of the industry, unless you’re in the barbecue industry or something, most of your sales are done – I think most of the places that I’ve worked that have had these type of consumer goods, 30-50% of your sales are done between the months of November and December. So it’s just been crazy to start during a time where that is really the focus. My role is supposed to be the person who sits at the top of – not at the top. My boss is all the way at the top. But who sits right on top of the strategy and the strategic initiatives and helps all the more specialty teams, like the email team and the website team and the creative team and the paid media team, helps those teams execute in order to meet the bigger strategic goals, execute the bigger strategic messaging vision. And I just haven’t been able to do that at all. Because by the time I started that big vision was so far out to sea already that my boss was like, “I don’t want you to worry about figuring out what’s going on with the holiday season because by the time you figure it out, it’s going to be over. Help where you can help. Support where you can support. But don’t stress out about not knowing every single thing that’s happening because it’s just not realistic for you to get up to speed at this point.”
Joy: Right, right.
Claire: Which I’m really glad she set that expectation on day one. Because I would have been tearing my hair out. All of November I would have just been tearing my hair out. If someone has been like, “Okay, go. You have to own all this now.” So I’m really grateful that that was said. But overall, it’s really good. It does make a difference to get paid more. It really does make me feel less resentful if I do have to – like I have some stuff that came up over the weekend and I had to jump in on it. That’s annoying to have to work on the weekend. But at the same time, it was one of those things where it was like, okay, this is one of the biggest seasons of the year. There’s a lot of changes coming through. This is not a normal thing. I’m not just getting one-off emails on the weekend. But it definitely helps when you feel like, okay, I’m actually being compensated for this. But I think overall, I really like the brand, I really like the people that I’m working with so far. The office is really cool. I actually really like driving to Denver. I might be in the very wild minority of people who love commenting.
Joy: You miss your commute. You miss your commute. And they have really fancy coffee there.
Claire: They have coffee. It’s so fancy. And that’s enough to get me down there. I’m going to go get an oat milk latte. For free? I think so.
Joy: I will drive that hour.
Claire: I will drive for an hour. It is like 45 minutes to an hour away. That’s a lot each day, but there will never be a time where I have to do that five days a week, 50 weeks of the year. The expectation is I’ll be going into the office maybe 1-2 days at the most. Or maybe 2-3 days a week at the most. I’m fine with that because I don’t mind being in the car. I get to think my own thoughts and listen to podcasts and call my mom.
Joy: Yeah, it’s your quiet time.
Claire: It’s my quiet time. If you are someone out there who lives with small children, you understand that it is very hard to find those moments. I actually kind of love it.
Joy: Not even the bathroom is sacred when you have kids.
Claire: It’s really not. Not even a little bit sacred. So I’m really enjoying it. I think it was a really good move. I’m happy. It’s been definitely hard. It’s a busier job than my previous job was. I think I talked about that last week. That is hard with Brandon’s schedule. With Brandon working in the OR, he never gets off at the same time each day at all. He gets off anywhere between 4 and 6. That’s a big range when you have school pickups to deal with and karate and if I’m driving home from Denver. So that has definitely created a point of tension, and I’m really interested to see how we figure that out.
Joy: I’m excited for you.
Claire: Thanks. Yeah, tell us about your new job.
Joy: Let’s take a quick break and talk about our favorite sponsor, Ned.
Claire: [singsong voice] Ned.
Joy: Guys, it’s the holidays. It’s the holiday. So do you have stressors around the holidays, Claire? Do you get stressed?
Claire: I’m a pillar of stress, Joy.
Joy: It’s this time of season where everyone has a million and one things to do, even though we’re still trying to social distance and maybe there’s not as many parties to plan for, there’s still a lot to do. I feel like if you’re feeling the extra stress. If you’re feeling like there are just too many things on your to-do list and you’re like, I’m just feeling it. At the end of the day, I can’t wind down. Might we suggest our favorite partners Ned and their products of CBD. I am advocating for the sleep blend still because I love it, love it, love it. And I love the people who are writing in like, “I can’t wait for hotel sleep.” So if you are having the same feelings as I am, I would love to hear your feedback. I truly still feel like I get hotel sleep when I use the sleep blend. But I’ve also been using just their CBD blend for the daytime, just to kind of destress. And a lot of people are also loving the mellow products. I don’t know what you’re still using, Claire.
Claire: Yeah, I tried them all the first time because I also take magnesium as a supplement that’s been recommended by my doctor to help with migraines. I was like, why am I taking CBD and then swallowing this giant magnesium pill. I could just take this mellow product. And I love it. I take it before bed. It’s really, really wonderful. It tastes delicious. It’s meant to replace a Natural Calm or something like that, that you would otherwise just drink before bed. I’m a big fan of it.
Joy: So let me just do a quick rundown of what is in their destress blend. It’s been in development for over a year. So it’s a one-to-one formula of CBD and CBG made from the world’s purest full-spectrum hemp. Features a botanical infusion of ashwagandha, one of my favorite words to say, cardamom, and cinnamon. And now for the holidays, Joy and Claire listeners get 20% Ned products. 20% off, you guys! With code JOY. When you spend more than $150, Ned is throwing in free gifts with every order.
Claire: Like chap stick. Guys, I feel like we don’t mention the chap stick enough.
Joy: We don’t mention the chap stick enough.
Claire: It’s like an angel on your lips just kissing your dry, cracked winter lips. I would spend $150 just in chap stick. It is expensive, but I literally cannot imagine a better stocking stuffer.
Joy: No, I cannot imagine a better stocking stuffer. We have completely failed to mention how great their chap stick is. But yes, they are throwing in free gifts. Get that chap stick. helloned.com/JOY to get access. That’s helloned.com/JOY to get 20% off plus free gifts with orders over $150. Thank you, Ned, for sponsoring this show and offering our listeners a natural remedy for some of life’s common health issues.
Claire: Okay, so tell us about your job.
Joy: Okay. So really quick, I accepted a job. Full time telehealth doing therapy from the comforts of my home. Not unlike what I was doing with BetterHelp. But I will be working for a company full time, salaried, benefits, the whole shebang with the team. I started today. And the reason I started later was a lot of reasons. But when you’re in the therapy world, they have to do what’s called credentialing. They have to submit your license and get it on insurance panels and yada yada yada. That takes a lot of time. So when you’re working in healthcare, especially in the behavioral health world, that can take some time. I decided to start after Thanksgiving so we could turn in Cadet, I could enjoy Thanksgiving. It’s crazy because I had a lot of emotions around what the last six months have been like because of what happened with my last job. We’re running out of time today, and I’d love to talk about this maybe a little bit more next time. Talking about grudges, because I’ve been finding myself still angry over what happened. I’m holding onto a grudge. And I’m like, this just isn’t good energy. But at the same time, I’m still so mad. I’m so angry. I do want to talk about that at some point. I feel in a good place talking about it now. I don’t want to just gloss over it. I don’t feel like it’s giving them any type of power. It’s just more me being like, hey, treat people with respect and kindness. How do I also let that go and move on. Because it was a very difficult thing that I went through. I was really thinking, it’s so cool to look back over the past six months where I’ve really had this down time to reflect on my life and get priorities in order and think about what’s really important to me and get my health back. I think that I’m starting a new chapter with a company that really values – and I know it’s the first day. Not any job or every job is perfect, but I can feel the energy shift already of how much better this is going to be for me. The people and the culture and the vibe. It’s all really onboarding right now, and it will be for the next couple of weeks. I’ll keep you posted. I’m just really happy, but I’m also kind of like – I had this horrible nightmare last night. Horrible. One of those dreams where you’re like, oh my gosh, what the heck am I working out? But it’s very clear of just stuff that I’m still holding onto from feeling a huge grudge from the last team I worked on. So I would like to maybe do a “to be continued” on that topic of how you let go of grudges. But new chapters, new beginnings. I’m really excited about it.
Claire: Awesome. Well guys, that about covers it. I feel like there’s just been a lot of updates needed lately. We knew November was going to be a big month, and it was, and now we’re processing it on the other side. I would also like to process the fact that the Baking Show is over. The Great British Bake Off series for 2021 has ended.
Joy: You had a birthday.
Claire: Yeah, my birthday was last week. That was fun. We did a lot of fun stuff. I had a good day. We went out to breakfast. Maxine and Brandon threw me a surprise Harry Potter lunch. But yeah, it’s been a big month. We’re going into December. There’s a lot going on.
Joy: There’s a lot going on. I can’t help but think about New Year 2022 and reflecting. This always makes me think about the year. Maybe we can have some type of conversation around what 2021 meant to you. Or maybe expectations or throwing away expectations. Truly for me personally, when 2020 was over, I was like, thank the good Lord. 2021 is going to be great. We have a new president. Things are going to be great. All of these positive feelings. And then 2021 was probably one of the hardest years for me. I don’t want to set any expectations. Now I’m scared of 2022. But it was a good lesson of just being like, man, you really just have to surrender sometimes. That’s the best you can do.
Claire: Boo, surrendering.
Claire: Alright, a few quick reminders. Please let us know what funny things your parents say instead of swear words. What was the other one we were going to do? I’m going to go back and listen to these. There was another one.
Joy: Jobs? No.
Claire: Alright, you’re just going to have to rewind and figure out what it was because I already forgot. And don’t forget to check out Ned. They have so many great products. We talked about the destress blend. We talked about mellow. We talked about their just straight hemp oil. We talked about the sleep blend. We love all of their products. We love the people. We know it has a lot of integrity. Check them out. Get you some chap stick if nothing else because man that chap stick is so great.
Joy: And you’re supporting the podcast by supporting our sponsors.
Claire: 20% off. What’s not to like?
Joy: What’s not to like?
Claire: Alright, you guys. Thank you for listening. You can find us on Instagram @joyandclaire_. You can find us online joyandclaire.com. As a reminder, all of our episodes are available at joyandclaire.com. If for some reason you ever go to your podcast app on a Thursday morning and we’re not there, just run over to joyandclaire.com. You can stream our episodes directly from there. You can email us email@example.com. And we will talk to you next week.
Joy: Bye guys.