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www.joyandclaire.com

Girls Gone Wod

email: thisisjoyandclaire@gmail.com

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This is Joy & Claire Episode 141: Surfboards and Laminated Lists

Episode Date: August 25, 2022

Transcription Completed: December 3, 2022

Audio Length: 49:52 minutes 

Joy: Hey guys, this is joy.

Claire: And this is Claire.

Joy: And we are Joy and Claire. In case you’re new here, maybe you don’t know our voices. I am Joy, and that is Claire. 

Claire: Yes. 

Joy: It always freaks me out when people mix us up. 

Claire: I know. It is jarring though when you are like so you someone’s voice – that happens with NPR hosts all the time. And then you see them in real life and you’re like, huh, that’s not what I was expecting. And then sometimes you see them in real life, and they’re exactly like who you were expecting. Like Ira Glass, for example, who you’re like, yeah,

Joy: That tracks. 

Claire: Yeah, that’s correct. 

Joy: But I did that with the Ronna and Beverly show. This was a podcast, I listened to way back, probably 10-12 years ago when podcasts were really new. They had a show and there were these like two amazingly hilarious Jewish mothers, comedians, and they’re so funny. They’re so funny. If you ever have a chance, go back and listen to them, they’re worth it. But they have two very distinct voices. One is like very high in chipper and one’s like, really low and gravelly. Had them mixed up the whole time. So when I saw them on a video, it completely threw me off. I was like, no, this is so weird. Anyway, I am Joy. That is Claire. Thank you for hanging with us for another week of the podcast. This is the week of August 25th. And as of the release of this episode, you will be mere moments from your trip. Have you decided? The question of the week.

Claire: I know. I am going to rent a board. 

Joy: All right.

Claire: It’s like $100 to rent one. They won’t tell you online exactly how much it’s going to cost to check your oversized bag, it says it could be up to $400. And because the surf bag is within inches of the limit. Although it’s not that heavy, the size is so big. Like I think it can go up to I want to say it’s 110 inches, which is like nine feet and change and my board bag is eight and a half feet. 

Joy: It’s risky. It’s risky.

Claire: Yeah. Just everything, all the considerations. It’s 100 euro, which is, you know, since the Euros down, it’s 100 bucks to rent the board for the whole freaking week and have somebody else deal with transporting it. So now all I have to worry about is I don’t think I’m going to check a bag. Although my wetsuit is really thick. 

Joy: I was going to say, isn’t that thick and heavy?

C It’s thick and heavy, and it would take up a half a carry on.

Joy: What’s the weather going to be like, while you’re there?

Claire: Yeah, great question. Do you do this? And I hope that other people who are listening to this where when you know that you have a trip coming up, you add that city to your weather app? 

Joy: Oh, yeah.

Claire: So I had it added to my weather app for a couple of weeks. And it’s like mid 60s to low 70s and a mix of sun and rain. 

Joy: Okay.

Claire: So it’s going to be cool and probably a little bit wet. It’s funny because in Colorado, which is the only place I’ve really ever lived other than Utah, which is even more dry than this, we don’t get rain. There’s no such thing as casual rain in Colorado. Maybe at most two days a year do we get what most people would consider just like a rainstorm. Not even a storm, just some rain. We do get storms – we get thunderstorms, but they’re very short lived. And you know, they’ll go they’ll blow through and maybe it’ll rain for 10,15,20 minutes, and then it’ll be done. That’s all you get for the day. But rarely do we get just like a rainy day. We just had one this week. And it was on Tuesday, and it like kind of rained on off all day. I’m not exaggerating when I say we maybe have one or two of those days a year.

Joy: A year. Yeah. 

Claire: Where it’s cloudy all day. Or a mix of cloudy all day and raining, not raining, raining, not raining. Very uncommon. And so when it was doing that, I was like, oh, I’m going to get to Ireland and get to tell everyone like we just had our one rainy day a year where I live. 

Joy: You’re like, I’m acclimated.

Claire: Exactly. 

Joy: I’m ready for it.

Claire: And like nobody in Colorado owns a rain jacket. Or if you do you, only wear it once a year.

Joy: Totally. I remember when we would have afternoon rainstorms in Colorado, whatever like a handful of years ago when like we actually had afternoon rainstorms and now it doesn’t do it anymore, but we’d go to Red Rocks for concerts, and it was always so like touch and go with rain. So that’s the only time I’d really use like my raincoat. 

Claire: Yeah, like no one owns umbrellas. There’s just no need. If it’s raining and you have to go somewhere you just wait in your car until the rain stops. I always talk about how I wish I lived in a cooler climate, but the reality is that I can’t move anywhere else because I can’t handle anything less than like 330 days a year of sun.

Joy: So someone did write you on – 

Claire: Yes. Someone from Ireland – 

Joy: Not Ireland, but LA. She’s like, I am an avid surfer. She’s an LA surfer.

Claire: Oh, I was thinking about the person that emailed us from Ireland.

Joy: No, we just got this email from someone that said, she travels a lot and has never checked her own board. There’s so many things that can go wrong. They could break it in transit, gets lost, whatever, whatever. So they just say rent it and call it a day. So there you go.

Claire: I agree. And that’s the recommendation I would give anyone about skis, and skis are way easier to travel with because there’s so much lighter and smaller. I’ve never flown with my skis. So I get it. And I completely agree. It was really more just like the sunk effort that I’d already put into it. And also the fact that I previously was told that renting a board – even the woman who I first talked to who had told me to reach out to this rental place, I had emailed them, and they never emailed me back. And it’s the same rental place we’re getting them from, but they’re like arranging it locally.

Joy: Right.

Claire: Anyway, whatever. A lot of people also messaged us and were like, you need to tell the surf company what happened. And like, yeah, I will continue to express my frustration with how that went down. But at the same time, they didn’t force me to buy a surfboard, I am renting one. I will be leaving on Saturday. I am very excited. And I am nervous, because I think I’m always nervous about trips like this. But I am especially nervous because – my Mexico trip I was nervous but it’s explicitly said this is a trip for all levels. You can be a brand-new beginner and come out. This trip is specifically like, we do not want brand new beginners. You have to be able to catch your own waves.

Joy: You actually email them you’re like, hey, is my skill level good enough for this trip? 

Claire: Right. And they’re like, yeah, of course. And I’m like, are you sure? And so I really am feeling worried that I’m going to get there and they’re going to be like, oh, yeah, actually, maybe you should sit this one out. But if I get there and I can’t surf – and it probably would just be more like, if I’m uncomfortable. If there’s a swell or something, if I’m uncomfortable, I’m still going to be at the beach in Ireland.

Joy: Yeah, it’s going to be a win win, no matter what,

Claire: It’s going to be a win win. And it’s similar to my Mexico trip too where there’s like a lot of other activities. I don’t get what it is with surf retreats and sound baths. Like everyone I see, it’s like we’re going to do a sound bath.

Joy: It just goes hand in hand.

Claire: I mean, everyone here knows I am very onboard for any activity that basically just requires me to lay on the floor. So in that sense, very excited.

Joy:  I’ll just prepare for a nap. I’m good.

Claire: There’s also a seaweed bath. Two types of baths. Sound bath and a seaweed bath where there’s basically there’s like a seaweed spa that you go to and they just wrap you up and seaweed. So that sounds nice. Looking forward to not being the palest person there or at least being like on par with the paleness.

Joy: Really, let’s be honest, this is like a dream trip for you. 

Claire: It really is.

Joy: In all aspects.

Claire: It is. And that’s like why also I am pushing myself to take it even though I know that my skill level is like right at the bottom of where it should be. Because I’m like, when am I going to have a chance to do something like this again? I’m excited. I’m excited to tell you guys about it. And we have had some questions about we had sort of said we might do a surf trip for Joy and Claire. We’re still in the process of kind of feeling that out and seeing what might be able to happen. I think the biggest restriction that we would run into would be the trip size. When I went on that trip, it was only seven people. And so I think we’re going to need to figure out if that’s something that we, you know, between Joy and I, do we really only really want to do a trip we’re only like five or six additional people can come? And on one hand that does make it really manageable and really like – I mean intimate is not really the right word. But you get to spend a lot of time with each other. Like when we did our Costa Rica trip, I want to say it was 12 people and we did Iceland, I want to say it was like 14 or 15. I can’t quite imagine a trip based on an activity like surfing with that many people, but I could be wrong. So we’ll see. So TBD. We’re still we’re talking to the potential trip organizer still and seeing what our options would be. If it does happen. I imagine that we will be looking at like sometime April, May or June of 2023.

Joy: And on that same note, are we just going to make that like our 10-year anniversary party? Because what if people can’t go on like a trip trip? 

Claire: I think we’re going to have to do both. We’ll have to do like something local also, at the Alamo again.

Joy: That was so fun. I would do that again in a heartbeat. That was so great.

Claire: I was at work and some colleagues they were talking about just going to the movies and how like, oh, it’s been so long since I’ve been in the movies. And the Alamo came up and was like, oh, I did this party once where we rented out the Alamo and I was like 39 weeks pregnant.

Joy: Such a good memory. I just remember the venue was perfect like the staff was perfect. Everybody got to have some food and watch Mean Girls. The Ned guys stopped by. That was the first time we met them. I was really shocked by how handsome they were. Not that I didn’t think they were. But in person, I was like, whoa, this is too much to handle for our party. I need a moment. No, they’re, they’re great. And so maybe Ned will also show up for our 10-year anniversary party. Because that was what our 300th episode My goodness. 

Claire: Yeah. 

Joy: Yeah. So we’re going to have to keep planning for that. And then maybe a surf trip with everybody too. We got to get back on that. I really miss our podcast trips. Truly some of the best memories ever.

Claire: Truly, I know. I actually got a text from Megan and Joelle last week. They went on a road trip and they were listening to the Iceland episode of the Camp TimeOut episode. Actually now that I’m saying that, I don’t think I ever texted her back.

Joy: [laughing] I hate when I do that, when I forget to text people. Do you ever do that? Or you write a text and you never send it? You’re like, oh, sorry.

Claire: Yeah, I do this with emails unfortunately too. A lot, where someone will write me an email like, hey, I have this question. And I’ll think to myself, oh, I need to ask someone else. Like, Oh, that reminds me, I have been needing to follow up on a similar question with someone else. And so then I’ll go follow up on that question from the other person and forget about the initial email. And then they’ll email me back like a week later and be like, hey, I’m just checking in on this. I’m like, crap, oh, well.

Joy: Just don’t write an email and say, “I’m just putting this at the top of your inbox,” because that’s a big pet peeve of mine.

Claire: Oh, I do that. 

Joy: Okay. At work maybe. But we always get them for the podcast from sponsor people that want us to promote their stuff. They’re like, just throwing this at the top. I’m like, if you’re a spammy sponsor person, I don’t want you at the top of my email inbox.

Claire: I know. I get that a lot at work because I guess, maybe, I must be easy to find on LinkedIn or something. People always are emailing me. I get probably like 10 cold emails a day from salespeople. Like, first of all, why are you cold emailing me? Does that work? To be fair, I don’t have a work phone. They are always like replying, replying, replying. Like listen, if I didn’t get if I didn’t respond to your first four emails, what makes you think I’m going to respond now to this? Like, “Hey, how’s your engagement TikTok?” I’m like, guys, we don’t even have a TikTok account. Why are you emailing me? Did you even look at title look us up on TikTok first? It’s similar to when we get sponsors, and they’re like, “Hey, Joy” or they just write, “Hey guys.” Or “Hey, girls gone wild.” That’s my favorite. People constantly will be emailing us like, “Hey, girl gone wild.” If you think you’re emailing Girls Gone Wild, I am sorely disappointed to tell you that our email address is not girlsgonewild@gmail.com. Anyway, okay. So a couple weeks ago – so just to give you a little insight into our world, we are trying to pre-record a couple of episodes because I’m going to be gone. And then the following week is Labor Day. And I’m not getting back to like kind of halfway through the week. And so we’re pre-recording a couple episodes. We’re going to also have an episode come out with Laura Ligos, our favorite dietitian. So this episode, we are going to go back and answer a bunch of the questions that you guys asked on Instagram last week, just so that we don’t get too sick of talking to each other. And you don’t get too sick of us just like rambling about our lives. But first of all, I want to tell you guys that Miles’ first day of first grade was this week.

Joy: That’s so exciting. 

Claire: And he is so funny already. He’s six and a half years old, and he wants nothing to do with me. We go to drop him off, Brandon and I both. Brandon got the morning off specifically so we could take him. And we got there and like, all the other kids are like taking pictures with their families. Some kids are crying. My child is running laps around the playground.

Joy: Just like at home. 

Claire: Whose kid is this? And every once in a while, he’d kind of check in and be like, “Hey, is it time yet?” I’d be like, “No.” And he’d be like, “Okay,” and just go off and run another lap.

Joy: Oh my god. That’s amazing. I was really excited to start school to start first grade because I wanted homework. I felt like such – I know. I remember the first day of first grade coming home. We’re like playing with the kids in the front yard. My neighbor was like, “How was your first day?” And I was like, “I’ve got to go, I have to go do my homework.” And I felt like such an adult. I just remember saying that to her. I was like, “I have to go inside, and I have to do my homework.” Like, it was like the epitome of adult.

Claire: That clearly is like a core memory because you were six.

Joy: Totally. And no one could tell me that that happened because I was the only one there.

Claire: Maybe you just dreamed it. That’s so funny. Miles is definitely a fan of homework, which checks out. I think fewer and fewer teachers are giving a lot of homework these days, especially in elementary school. Like really is there a reason? Looking back on my adolescence, I don’t feel like I ever gained anything from homework. The only homework that I feel like you can really justify is having kids read something at home so you can come to school and talk about it the next day. A because everybody reads at very different paces. And it’s hard. I mean, it takes a long time to read. So expecting everyone to sit there for 30 minutes and then read and then talk about it would be hard to do if you only have like 40 minutes of class. But when I think about like math homework, or even research projects, I just don’t really feel like I ever got a whole lot out of doing it at home. But you know, who knows? Maybe I’m missing the point. I mean, I will say, it’s not like homework prepared me for my professional life because I do everything in my power to not work at home, or like outside of work hours. So you can be like, school is preparing you for the real world. Like, yeah, guess what? If you graduate from school and have it normalized that you have to go home and still do three more hours work? Like maybe that’s why we’re in the predicament that we are today, with people experiencing wild burnout.

Joy: Oh, that’s so funny. That’s so funny. 

Claire: Yeah, But happy first day of first grade, Miles. And then he came home on the second day and he was like, “Mom, I don’t want to go to school. It’s so boring.” Like dude, it’s day two. 

Joy: You got to lock it up, man. You got to lock it up. 

Claire: A little bit of a better attitude here because I am not having this conversation with you for the next eight months.

Joy: Yeah, yeah, you’re like, let’s get going. Well, okay. Well, congratulations.

Claire: And then Evie starts preschool. I think already give us update. Evie starts preschool the week after Labor Day, and Maxine is going to go work for a new family, which is really sad. And also, it’s the right thing at the right time. But I really don’t know what we’re going to do without her. Keep us in your thoughts as we navigate our lives without as much childcare support as we’ve had. Okay, so we’re going to get to some questions. But first, let’s take a quick break, rave and sing the praises of our sponsor, Ned. Ned, the makers of our favorite CBD products, I love their Daily Blend. I use the 750-milligram concentration Daily Blend. And I also love their Mello Magnesium drink mix. I love the Meyer lemon. It’s really such a part of my nightly routine these days that I’m taking it with me in Ireland. That’s as much as I rely on it. I travel with it. Now that I’m thinking about it, I got to make sure that things are under three ounces.

Joy: Yeah, be careful. But I’m very excited to announce that they have a new product out. As of the release of this episode. It’s called the Brain Blend, and I got to try it out. And it’s like, one of those things again, you don’t know how you’re going to feel after you take something new. Like the second I took it that day, I already felt like, Oh, I feel like I’m really just locked into what I’m supposed to be doing. Like my focus felt really good. I’m not saying it’s going to work for everybody. But it was a little bit of a coincidence. And then day two, I was like, this is actually working. So the new Brain Blend is another one that I am a huge fan of. I feel like they can’t do anything wrong. I feel like every product of theirs is just top notch because they are.

Claire: Also I just saw that they were named on the Inc. 5000 Fastest-Growing Private Companies list. They are number 364. So that’s exciting for them. I think it also goes to show that there’s a lot of confidence in their products. And you know, you can look back and be like I remember Ned back in the day. I knew them when. Try out Ned. Try out the new Brain Blend. You can get 15% off your order with discount code JOY or go to helloned.com/JOY. That’s helloned.com/JOY or use discount code JOY. And also don’t forget that they have a 30-day money back guarantee on your first order. So if you’ve been waiting for the right product to try, try out the brain blend and let us know what you think. And if you didn’t love it, then you can return it for free and get your money back.

Joy: I’m pretty sure you’re going to love it. 

Claire: Thank you guys for supporting the brands that support our podcast. Joy. You got some questions for us?

Joy: I do have some questions. Well, we had someone asked about the progress of the Joy and Claire surf trip, but we already addressed that. So that one’s done. Tips on reaching more people with a podcast? Yes.

Claire: Oh, this reminds me. Somebody sent us a DM and said their daughter wants to start a podcast and they want to know what to get started. I think I need to just make an Instagram highlight about this finally, because we’ve been getting this question for years. And I need to look into how things have changed. The number one thing that we try to promote to people or encourage people with is that starting a podcast is actually so easy. There’s very little that you actually need to have. Really all you need is a computer that can connect to the internet. That’s really it. Headphones are great. Not necessary. A microphone is great, but not necessary. You can use your Apple air…

Joy: Yeah, Apple, the plugin one. Anything that is like wireless is not great for podcasting, because you’re always going to have the shorting out thing. But the Apple earbuds that plug in are really great. If you’re a guest on a podcast, those are great. Please do not use the wireless ones.

Claire: And it’s so easy to get your feed published. So I’ll put up some Instagram stories about that for anybody who’s ever thought to themselves, man, I’d really like to try a podcast but there’s just so much work that needs to go into it. It’s just really not true. You know, based on the fact you can just demonstrate it by how Joy and I have been able to do this every week for the last almost, you know, 9.5 years.

Joy: Yeah, we don’t have a professional studio. We just have little home studio. 

Claire: It’s just us. We don’t have a team. 

Joy: We do not have an assistant. Tips on reaching more people, I would say that if you can, try to get on other people’s podcasts or get people on your podcast. The more that you kind of do that give and take, what you put out comes back to you. I think the people that you invite onto your podcast, as long as you have a genuine interest in what they’re doing. I think that really shows. So I would say that’s number one. And then there are some things that you can read about. Claire, you can probably talk about this more than I could but just like keywords that you put in your title. You can actually Google some things about like, what do I need to put in my podcast title that’s going to draw more people. So there’s little tricks that you can do like that. But I also think that it takes time and patience if you’re if you’re newer to just build up your audience. Staying consistent is really important. Podcasts are a dime a dozen and a lot of them fizzle out really quickly. So if you are going to do a weekly show, and you start doing it every three weeks, people are going to be like, “Yeah, well, this isn’t going to show up on my feed.” So people need to know what to expect. They need to know what they’re coming in for. If you’re just going to do a series or if you’re going to do a weekly podcast, just be very clear about what you’re going to be doing. Those will be my top tips. There’s a ton more but for the sake of time,

Claire: Definitely the number one thing to do is to go on other people’s podcasts who have a similar audience to you. And then also invite them onto your podcast and have that cross pollination. Sometimes you can even ask if you can repost the episode that you record with them on your feed and vice versa. And then you get two episodes in one bang, I would say in terms of specifically speaking to your title and your cover art, make sure that it really is something where you can look at it right away and first of all, read it. And second of all, that it’s not too niche that you can read it and kind of know what you’re getting without having to dig too much further. Like imagine that if you’re scrolling through an entire category on iTunes, what’s a title that would jump out to you. It can feel boring to name your podcast, something like “How to Trail Run for Beginners,” or “Women with Tattoos Talking About Coffee.” But if you get like too punny, then people aren’t going to understand it. You know, don’t be afraid to just name it like “Two Friends Talking About Birds.” Like it doesn’t need to be too crazy, or too cutesy. And I think the other big thing that you can do is from purely an organic search standpoint of people, you know, Googling like “women’s podcasts about birds,” is transcribe your episodes and put the transcriptions on your website. And what that does is it creates a ton of text for Google to search through on your site. So that if people are searching for certain terms, and those terms are coming up regularly in your episodes, then that makes it that much easier for Google to find your site. So that’s just like a little SEO tip.

Joy: Speaking of birds, someone messaged us and was like, “The birds aren’t real conspiracy. The guy was in on it.” And I forgot to mention that. I do know that.

Claire: I listened to that too. 

Joy: Yeah, I listened to some – maybe it was The Daily or maybe it was the Rabbit Hole podcast, or whatever.

Claire: I think it was the Armchair Expert, wasn’t it?

Joy: Yes, that’s right. The Armchair Expert. There was an episode. He’s been on a few but he basically created it just to kind of make fun of all the conspiracy theories out there. So all right, next question is have either of you tried pickleball? If you haven’t heard, pickleball is the new CrossFit. Okay, so I, I had a couple of clients, oh gosh, 10 years ago that were really into pickleball. They were like senior years, and they loved pickleball, so I’ve known about it for a really long time, but apparently, it’s becoming like the coolest thing for young people to do.

Claire: It is.

Joy: And it’s really funny to see.

Claire: Like, Lululemon has a pickleball campaign.

Joy: It’s so funny that that’s becoming a thing. I mean, good for them. Great, but I mean – 

Claire: It’s super fun. 

Joy: I have never tried it.

Claire: I’m not like a ball sports person. I’m not a team sports person. 

Joy: I don’t like balls flying at my nose. 

Claire: I need to avoid situations where balls fly at my nose. But it is so hot right now. And it’s so funny because I actually just today, like in this like DM group, I guess, with a bunch of women from Longmont –

Joy: Your WhatsApp? Oh, a different one. Okay.

Claire: Yeah, a different one with a bunch of women in Longmont. And it’s a couple entrepreneurs in the area that I know added me to this group. And somebody just today was like, “Does anybody want to learn to play pickleball? I really want to learn but I need some friends to try it with.” And then a couple of people in my office, one in particular, is so obsessed with it. And any time we have any sort of team outing, she’s like, “Well, we play pickleball.” So I haven’t tried it. I am not a big ball sports person. I’ve heard it’s super, super fun. I know Brene Brown is really into it.

Joy: Oh yeah, she does that and swimming. I mean, I only know that because I listen to her podcast religiously. But yeah, I’d be open to trying it. I used to just go to do like a racquetball… what is it called back in the Rec Center when I was in college? I would just go to like the racquetball courts and just hit a ball back and forth. But that was more because I was like really obsessed with exercise and I needed more things to do. So I would just like literally go hit a racquetball. But that was just because I was like, oh, I’m already done with running for an hour and a half and then weightlifting for another hour and a half, what else can I do? So that was not a great time in my life.

Claire: It might have primed you to be great at pickleball.

Joy: I’m sure that’s the reason. Puppy raising. New puppy on its way. Crate train. Pee breaks at night. So excited. Oh, congratulations for if you’re getting a puppy that’s really fun, and also exhausting. Really quick. I’m happy to answer questions. If you email me to me too. Maybe I should do a highlight on this as well. Like the must haves for puppy raising. But really quick, maybe top five. Definitely crate train. Definitely, definitely, definitely crate train. I am a huge fan of the snuggle puppy, which is a little soft, stuffed animal toy. You can do any stuffed animals, but just make sure the dogs are not chewing it. Because that can really cause a very big vet bill. But usually puppies, their mouth is so small and their teeth aren’t really like – I mean, they’re razors but they can’t really shred up a toy yet. But they love stuffed animals because it feels like their pack. It feels like there’s another dog in the crate with them. 

Claire: And the snuggle puppy has a little heartbeat.

Joy: Yeah, it has a heartbeat. It has a battery-operated little heartbeat thing that you can turn on. But again, I always caution. Just make sure the dog isn’t eating it. You don’t want them to eat the battery.

Claire: River ate it. 

Joy: Yeah. So those are the things that I –

Claire: We’re not surprised.

Joy: Yeah. That we keep an eye on because so far the puppies I’ve raised have not tried that. But CCI is always like lecturing us, as they should be very careful if you use that. Like, you better be on it. Like very, very cautious. The other quick tip about crate training is if the puppy is really crying at night the first few nights, put the crate right next to your bed because they just need to know that they’re not alone. And it really helps them feel like, when they’re away from their pack for the first few nights, that’s just really upsetting to them. They’re little babies, and they just really miss their friends and their brothers and sisters. So you just put the crate right next to your bed and that really helps. And then I also play the puppy calm station when they’re babies just to kind of get them used to getting settled in their crate if they have issues with their crate. Taking them to pee every couple hours. Puppies have very small bladders. So in the middle of the night, we would just wake up when we kind of heard them rustling. And you have to physically pick them up to go outside. Because if you just open the crate, they’re going to pee everywhere. Carrying them to go outside, putting them in the grass or the yard or whatever and letting them pee gets them used to going like knowing where they’re supposed to go to the bathroom. But yeah, toilet training is just patience because you have to get them use do you. I always err on the side of like taking them out as much as possible. Because you just want to catch them going to the bathroom. You want to kind of predict when they’re going to go to the bathroom and take them out before they go in your house. But accidents do happen. I mean, Joe, pooped and peed in our house a few times because he was like, “Yeah, this is where I go.”

Claire: Yeah, when we first got River, the first like four or five nights, we set a timer to go off every three hours to let her out. And I had like a little bit of a painful flashback about doing that to breastfeed. Because it’s pretty much the exact same thing. You’re supposed to do it for the first like couple days after you have a baby where it’s like, you know, set a timer and make sure you’re offering to feed them every couple hours. But it did really set us up for success in the long run, because it also helped us get used to knowing how long is too long. Or if you can get out in front of it, then you get a better sense sooner of like, how much can you really push it.

Joy: Right. And crate training really does help with potty training. It teaches them how to go outside more quicker. The other thing I’ll say about crate training is that for puppies, if you’re if you have a large crate, something that’s like way bigger, they should just be able to kind of turn around and lay down. It shouldn’t be very, very large when they’re little babies. That will prevent them from going to the bathroom in the crate because they don’t really like to pee and poop where they sleep. So naturally they’re going to whine and cry to be let out if you have a smaller crate. So what we have is we have this adjustable crate where we can put like a barrier to where when they’re little babies, it just kind of makes the crate super small. And then we take the barrier out and it’s a bigger, larger crate when they’re older. So those are that’s nice to have. It’s like an adjustable crate where you can adjust it as they grow and then they’re less likely to go poop or pee in the crate because of that, because it’s too small for them. And then they’ll whine and cry and let you know when they need to be let out. out. We do love this toy called the bacon keys. If you just Google “bacon keys,” that’s really good for puppies because it’s soft enough on their teeth. You really want to be careful with toys on little babies because you don’t want their teeth breaking. If you give them something too hard, it can break their baby teeth. And you might think, Oh, well, it’s their baby teeth. No, it can cause like major damage to their adult teeth too if they break their baby teeth. So everything has to be pretty soft. Don’t give them anything really hard. Just be careful on anything that they could ingest. Take everything off the floor. They will eat everything. And I mean everything. So the other thing that we do when we’re training puppies is we give them really, really soft training treats, so you never give them kibble. Most of the time we train the dogs with just some kibble out of their breakfast or dinner, but puppies can choke very easily. So you want to use very soft treats and maybe soak their kibble in water. Okay, those are like the top tips, but always happy to answer more if you want to email us. Next one, you’re going to laugh. Who is on your current laminated list? Five people. This is my friend Gary. I knew he was going to ask this. This is a total Gary question. Hi Gary.

Claire: What’s a laminated list?

Joy: Like people that you could hook up with, like free passes.

Claire: Oh, that’s not what I thought that meant. Like, who’s like your hall pass?

Joy: Yeah, like Ross and Rachel. Wasn’t it on Friends when they had like their laminated lists?

Claire: I am not a Friends person. 

Joy: Okay. 

Claire: I mean, I like watched it, but I don’t know it that well. 

Joy: So they had laminated lists.

Claire: That’s a lot. 

Joy: That is a lot. Right now. I have four or maybe three. Just like off the top of my head. But it’s really hard to think of… Like my first one, because we talked about Paul Rudd last week, I was like Paul Rudd for sure would be up there. 

Claire: We were just talking about Chris Pine a couple weeks ago, and he’s definitely on my list.

Joy: Yeah, I think possibly Jon Hamm. I’m a huge Jon Hamm fan. 

Claire: I mostly love him in that season of 30 Rock. 

Joy: Yeah.

Claire: He’s like so hot and dumb.

Joy: Rob Lowe. I just want to go with like the hot dumb characters. 

Claire: Hot dumb guys.

Joy: Yeah. When he’s Chris Traeger. Oh my God. 

Claire: My friend Heather always calls River a hot dummy. 

Joy: Yeah, hot dummy. 

Claire: She is a hot dummy. Let’s see who else…

Joy: Ethan Hawke would be one of mine. I’m Googling actors, which is so funny because I’m like, why am I not looking – 

Claire: You’re just Googling actors? 

Joy: Yeah, I’m Googling actors around 40 because I don’t want it to get like weird.

Claire: I mean, Ryan Gosling is definitely on my list. Yeah, he’s been on there for a long time.

Joy: Yeah. Did you have like crushes when you’re a kid for movie stars? 

Claire: Oh, yeah. And you know, that actually brings up a great point. Leonardo di Caprio. Definitely. 

Joy: Leo.

Claire: Leo. Leo and Justin Timberlake were my first celebrity crushes. To this day, if JT walked up behind me right now. I’d be like, “This call is over.”

Joy: The podcast is over forever and ever.

Claire: We’re sorry guys. 

Joy: I think one of my first crushes movie star crushes was Elliot from ET.  

Claire: [laughing] He was like this sickly weird little boy.

Joy: Yeah, but I was the same age as him. And then the other thing was the boy on Honey, I Shrunk the Kids. The boyfriend.

Claire: Oh, what about the boy from Hocus Pocus? 

Joy: I don’t remember him. 

Claire: Old timey. What was his name? He was like supposed to be a ghost. So many people are yelling the name.

Joy: Oh, Max Dennison. 

Claire: Am I thinking of Max?

Joy: Oh, oh, okay. Max Dennison was the character name. And then his name is Omri Katz. 

Claire: No, no, I’m thinking of Thackery Binx.

Joy: He’s cute.

Claire: Really cute, right?

Joy: Yes. Yes. Yeah, but the Honey, I Shrunk the Kids guy was like dreamy. Because I was the same age as them when I was watching the movie. And so I just remember being like [gasp] when she was in the kitchen dancing and he was watching her. I was like, oh my God. This is like the best. It was so teen angsty.

Claire: Like what you want it to be. 

Joy: Yeah, it was not too angsty. But just like teen heartthrob II. That’s like how it felt watching it.

Claire: Sexual awakening. 

Joy: Totally sexual awakening. It was like, what was it, the Goblin King. Oh, I just dropped my glasses. 

Claire: Joy is getting hot and bothered.

Joy: Whoever wrote and said the Goblin King was her sexual awakening makes me laugh. From the Labyrinth. Oh my god. You guys kill me. You guys are so funny. Okay, so I don’t know. I think those are my main ones. If I didn’t say Ethan Hawke, we’ll add him to the list.

Claire: You did.

Joy: I feel like there’s some athletes in there that I really am just not doing a good job. 

Claire: Oh sure, yeah.

Joy: I’m not doing a good job. So maybe we’ll give it some thought.

Claire: Okay, we’ll come back.

Joy: That was just a rough draft. That was shitty first draft, as Brene would say. Joy, do you need to follow any food or lifestyle guidelines to keep your thyroid healthy? Thank you for asking. For those of you who may or may not know, I had Graves’ disease a couple years ago. I saw naturopath and we were able to kind of put that baby to bed. We put it in remission. As far as lifestyle, yes, I am keeping my exercise moderate. I’m not doing heavy, like high intensity CrossFit type stuff anymore. So I’m keeping my exercise to be like mild to moderate exercise. I get plenty of rest. I do follow the diet that she had me on which is eliminating some dairy and some other things. I still will eat dairy on occasion. Like the other day I went to Postino with my friends, and they have these fabulous cheese boards. I’m like, I’m going to have some cheese. But the reason I feel okay doing that is because overall my life is a completely different place. Like when I had Graves’ disease, I 1,000% know it was from the most intense toxic workplace ever. I know that’s what it was from. So all these other things we had to kind of put on like the high blast full speed treatment to get it to reverse. So now that I’m not as stressed, I know that that is a huge benefit to me, but I still don’t want to just kind of like do undo everything that I worked so hard to kind of balance out. And I do get my thyroid checked every six months, maybe three to six months, just to make sure the levels are fine. They’re still fine. I just had it rechecked. So as far as food or lifestyle, yeah, I do my best to keep going on what my naturopathic doctor taught me to do. And I’m super forever grateful for that. Do either of you use laundry or dishwasher detergent that is more earth friendly? I love Mrs. Meyers everything.

Claire: The biggest thing that I do to try to be earth friendly is buy refills and that’s something that you can do with a wide variety of brands. A lot of them will sell bulk options. It made me think about it when you said Mrs. Meyers. We have a few like huge gallon jugs of Mrs. Meyers hand soap that we just use to refill hands so containers in our house and that is something that is overlooked as a really accessible option. You don’t need to have biodegradable everything. You don’t have to necessarily use the like the tablets. There’s a lot of different ways of doing that out there. But that is one that is really accessible to a lot of people. If you have a bulk market in your town. Cleaning supplies are often one of the number one things that they sell because they’re super shelf stable. So look around. Longmont has one. Denver has a few. And see what types of bulk options are available for you to buy refills. And then also as a fun part of that you get to buy like cute ceramic or glass hand soap dispensers to you know make your house really cute.

Joy: Which I really appreciate. I feel like I notice that when people have cute soap dispensers at their house. Like this is really great.

Claire: Totally. However I will also say that kind of the number one tenant of going lower waste is like don’t throw out all your plastic and replace it with glass and whatever right off the bat. Use your plastic ones reuse them for as long as you can. And then once they get to the point where – you know there does come a time. They’re not designed to be reused and so you probably can only reuse them a handful of times. But don’t just like go trash all your plastic stuff. Also I will say I don’t always buy this but at like Whole Foods, Vitamin Cottage, I think you can definitely get them online. They have these dissolvable laundry detergent strips. They are often sold in biodegradable packaging. It’s basically a condensed version of laundry soap because you know a lot of what you’re doing with laundry soap is just water with laundry detergent but you’re pouring it into a vat full of water. So either use of powder which comes in a cardboard box that you can recycle the tide powder is great for that if you’re if you’re sensitive, right but if you’re a little bit a little bit more sensitive skin, or you know you’re sensitive to fragrances or whatever, there are some dissolvable laundry –

Joy: Like free of everything. Oh yeah.

Claire: They’re like these sheets. It’s almost like, imagine like a giant – gosh, what were those things called? Those breath mints strips? 

Joy: Yeah. Like Listerine strips.

Claire: You guys remember the Lysol strips?

Joy: Listerine.

Claire: Listerine, Listerine. Not Lysol. Please don’t drink Lysol. Don’t put Lysol in your mouth. Listerine.

Joy: Trump is talking to you.

Claire: The QAnon van is outside. It’s basically an enormous version of that except it was made out of laundry detergent and you can put it in. I actually found them to be really effective and our laundry, I mean, we go through a lot of laundry. Our laundry loads are humongous, and our laundry is really stinky. Kids’ clothes get dirty in a way that adult clothes do not. They actually get spills and just dirt, like actual just dirt. I just look at the clothes and I’m like, what have you been doing? Were you rolling around in the ground all day long? And the answer is yes, yes, they were. So those are some good options.

Joy: Fantastic. All right. I love cleaning products and it’s like the time of year when like pretty soon the fall scents are coming out. 

Claire: I know, your Trader Joe’s trip is coming up.

Joy: I’ve got to prepare. I’ve got to train for it.

Claire: You’ve got to make a reel about it. I hope you’re ready to make some content.

Joy: [singing] I’m ready to make you some content. Bo Burnham, anyone? Okay. Next vacations for each of you? Well, we know we’re Claire’s going. I don’t have vacation planned yet. But that’s not because – I was talking to you about this. We were talking about this last week about like, I don’t feel the need to take a lot of vacation right now. Because, A, puppy raising sometimes it’s just hard logistics. But I don’t feel like we need a vacation right now. Like we’re going to, we’re going to eventually go back to Hawaii, I’m sure. But we have nothing planned as of yet. 

Claire: Yeah, I was going to ask if you’re going to Hawaii. This feels like this time of year you normally go you haven’t been able to go the last couple years. 

Joy: We’ll probably go next year maybe. I don’t know. I think COVID just really kind of –

Claire: It’s hard with the dogs.

Joy: Yeah, it’s hard with the dogs and COVID just kind of like slowed everything down for us. And we just are like, We’re fine. We’re fine, guys. We’ll figure it out. Has there been anything positive that was a result from diet culture? Your face says it all. The fact that we paused for a long time –

Claire: I’m really trying to think about it. I mean, I don’t…

Joy: Well, here’s the thing. The positive thing from diet culture has brought all the bullshit to the surface. So sure, everything used to be kind of like, you know, we had – if you want to go listen to Maintenance Phase, they go through all the diets. It’s an amazing podcast if you want to go through the history of diets. But if you think about the 80s where everything was low fat, low calorie, fat free this, fat free that.

Claire: Right. 

Joy: And so people started really following diets, I would say a little bit blindly, because I’m not sure what was really prevalent in the 60s and 70s. But I feel like at least on my radar, just because of the age that I was that I saw it on television. And then like 90s 2000s, I feel like the internet really brought to the surface that diet culture is BS. So sure, I think diet culture ran its course and now we can push against it. I know that’s a little bit of a non-answer. But that’s what I think

Claire: it’s hard to imagine reverse engineering diet culture out of our society. And so it’s hard to say like, oh, well, without diet culture, we wouldn’t have body positivity. I can’t say that for sure. Because the reality is that as long as there have been human societies, or at least that we know of, there have been preferences for different physical attributes.

Joy: Correct.

Claire: That really aren’t grounded in anything other than just the trends of the time. So it’s hard to say like, oh, well, if diet culture wasn’t around, then you know, there would be no fatphobia. We can’t necessarily say that to be true. Because who knows what would have taken the place, or who knows what other culture –

Joy: I mean, we can go down a long history of people, racism, classism.

Claire: Absolutely.

Joy: We could go down the long history. 

Claire: That’s what I mean. You know, we definitely blame culture for a lot. But at the same time, diet culture was a symptom of a larger problem as well. It wasn’t necessarily the cause of all of this. And so it’s hard for me to say if diet culture was useless and we didn’t get anything out of it. Because I think in some ways it’s not bad to put a microscope over these different metabolic functions of the human body and learn what we’ve learned because of diet culture. I think the way that that information has been used has kind of like been used against us in a lot of ways. But that might be something I would say what’s positive about it is that we have a lot more information about the way that fat and carbs and protein and everything impacts our bodies that we probably wouldn’t have had without it. But I’ll have to think about that once more.

Joy: Yeah. Maybe we’ll talk about that with Sassy. That’d be a good Sassy question. PMD microdermabrasion review? So I got that tool that everyone thought was a vibrator.

Claire: Not a vibrator.

Joy: Not a vibrator. It is amazing. So it has this little – it’s the thing that sucks the dirt off your face, like when you go get a facial, Claire, and they use that little vacuum. It’s kind of like that. I will say there’s a learning curve like any tool of how to use it. So you do have to kind of like start chill, and then you can ramp it up. Because it has like levels of suckage. Feels really weird saying that. It feels great.

Claire: Still not talking about a vibrator

Joy: Definitely not, and it is great. I’m kind of obsessed with products on my face right now. So I’m using the Ordinary line, which you can get at the Ulta in Target. Which is another just dream the Ulta in Target, the Starbucks in Target. Like what else is target going to come up with? The Ordinary is a great brand for serums. I love their undereye. Caffeine produces puffy eyes. Anyway PMD. I will say I wouldn’t buy it full price. The fact that I got it like the Nordstrom sale $100 cheaper than the retail price. I would not pay $300 for it. $200? Sure, that’s like two facials worth.

Claire: Right.

Joy: But I’m going to have it for a while. I’ll get a lot of use out of it. But I wouldn’t pay $300 for it. So wait till it goes on sale again.

Claire: Black Friday or something

Joy: Exactly. Which is right around the corner.

Claire: You know I hate that phrase.

Joy: I know you do. What are Joy’s recommendations for high quality T shirts again? That is James Perse. Forever and ever favorite brand of clothing. But listen, guys and gals and people, do not buy it full price. You know my rule with anything, don’t buy it full price. You can get it on sale always a Nordstrom Rack. So I always just go the Nordstrom Rack website. And I searched James Perse. And I sort by newest. And I look through the things that have just arrived and I buy it in my size. They do have weird sizing. Their sizing is 1,2,3,4. So just look at their measurements. For reference, I’m a size three in their shirts. Large shoulders, and I like things a little bit baggier in their style. They last. I probably have shirts of theirs of that line that have been 10 plus years. They don’t fade, they don’t break apart. They last forever and ever. I wash my clothes all the time. They stand the test of time, except for white. White gets little pit stains, but you can get those out with bleach. 

Claire: Yeah, that’s not their fault. 

Joy: It really isn’t. All right.

Claire: Your dirty body is not their fault. 

Claire: Just to weigh in on this. I really liked the Everlane boxy cut T shirts. If you’re a little bit more petite, they are a little bit cropped, but if you are a little petite then it’s kind of just like hits you right at the top of your hips, which is really a nice flattering cut with the high waisted jeans. Which also if you’re petite maybe you’re running into the problem that I’m having where like all the jeans have a 12-inch rise. And that is like to my diaphragm. I have multiple pairs of jeans right now that come up to above my ribcage. 

Joy: Yeah. 

Claire: I was wearing a pair the other day and I like tried to take a picture. I was going to do reel. And I stood in from of the camera, and I was like, I look like half pants right now. My body is just half pants.

Joy: Just eating up half your body.

Claire: Did not make the reel. Because all I can see is this like 12-inch fly. 

Joy: Oh, that’s so funny. Okay.

Claire: But Everlane.

Joy: Everlane. That’s good. I have one of their shirts too. Ideal birthday day? Do you have an ideal birthday day? You’d get up and go on a hike probably,

Claire: Um, ideal birthday day. Okay, so here’s my here’s my question. My follow up question. My birthday is at the end of November. And so my ideal day can’t really take place at the end of November. Because it’s normally like –

Joy: Well, would you fly somewhere? Where would you go?

Claire: Maybe, yeah. I mean, if we’re talking ideal ideal, I’d probably like get up go get on a private jet. 

Joy: I was going to say I’m going to get on a private jet and go somewhere. 

Claire: Yeah. And maybe I would at the strike of midnight, I got on our private jet, and I’d go either somewhere with like some really nice mountains or somewhere with the beach. I’m not picky. Either or. I’d eat some really good baked goods. Maybe I go to France and pick up a croissant. And then I would just like relax and hang out. And while I was gone, I would have someone like sanitize my house and clean all the things and do all the house projects that need to get done so that when I could come home, my house would be exactly the way I wanted it. Yeah, that sounds nice. 

Joy: That sounds amazing. I would take a private jet to Los Angeles. And I’d drink juices all day and I’d shop you.

Claire: You would just sit in Erewhon. 

Joy: I would sit in Erewhon and I would try every product. Every product is so –

Claire: Joy would just rent out Erewhon for yourself and any celebrities that want to come.

Joy: Any celebrities, you’re welcome to join. I would shop. I would go to all the stores in Hollywood and all the stores that Cupcakes and Cashmere goes to because they look adorable.

Claire: You basically like live your dream Southern California influencer birthday life. I like that.

Joy: I’d go to Mozza. You want to come with me? Come on over.

Claire: I will come back for that. I’ll come back from my birthday croissants to have some Nancy Silverton.

Joy: Alright. That’s lovely, lovely, lovely.  

Claire: Alright, that really is it for today.

Joy: That’s it for today. 

Claire: You can find us on Instagram at @joyandclaire_. You can find us online at joyandclaire.com. You can email us thisisjoyandclaire@gmail.com. Don’t forget to support our sponsor, Ned. That’s helloned.com/JOY or use discount code JOY today for 15% off your order. Try out their new Brain Blend. You’re going to love it. And we will talk to you next week. 

Joy: See you later.

Claire: Bye.

Joy: Bye.