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Joy talks about the upcoming turn-in for Cadet going to college, Claire has some big news and also reflects on Miles’ birthday and 6 years of being a mother, then we take some random (wonderful!) listener Q&A!
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email: thisisjoyandclaire@gmail.com
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This is Joy & Claire: 98: Big Life Changes and Listener Q&A
Episode Date: October 28, 2021
Transcription Completed: November 5, 2021
Audio Length: 54:14 minutes
Joy: Hey guys, this is Joy.
Claire: And this is Claire.
Joy: And this is Joy and Claire. Happy almost November.
Claire: You know, it’s hilarious to me that for the last six weeks, you’ve been like, “It’s Halloween,” and this is the week where that would actually be true –
Joy: I’m over it.
Claire: And you’re like, “Happy almost November.” Joy’s two weeks ahead of us.
Joy: I am. And you know why I’m so obsessed with dates right now is we’re turning Cadet in soon. The anticipation is horrible. I don’t want it over, but I just want it over. Now I’m realizing as a puppy raiser, if you’ve done it before, the anticipation is killing me. I’m just watching the calendar but trying not to watch the calendar because all the puppy raisers are like, “Try to just enjoy this time. Don’t grieve the loss yet. Try to just enjoy it.” I’m like, yeah, but okay.
Claire: What day?
Joy: November 12. You’re just doing this countdown. So It’s hard not to do a countdown. My dad does this all the time when there’s a big something or if they’re going on a vacation, he sits and counts the day. And then he’ll be like, “Two more days,” and then “One more day.” That is why I’m so freaky about the dates right now. I’ll get over it once we’re out of the woods with turn in. It’s heavy on my heart, you guys. It’s heavy on my heart.
Claire: So for this episode, we asked for some last minute “give us your random questions” on Instagram, and somebody asked if you guys are going to get another puppy. You spoke about that for a second a few weeks ago, but…
Joy: Yeah, briefly I’ll cover it. We’re definitely looking to get another puppy. The puppy raiser waitlist is pretty long, so if you’re in the groove with puppy raising for Canine Companions, they require you to get on the list right away. Meaning, if we wanted to do a succession of puppies where we got one pretty quickly after we turned Cadet in, I think we would have had to apply way earlier this year or the end of last year. So we haven’t applied yet, but once she’s turned in, Scott and I were like, yes, we want to get back on the puppy raiser list. There’s also a way that you can be what’s called a finisher, which sounds very weird. So there’s puppies that go into the prison, and there’s a prison puppy raising program that also need the puppies to be outside getting socialize and have the outside experience and outside world experience. So there’s puppy raisers who will do finishing for the dogs, so if that’s something I can get on that we can do sooner, then we’ll ask if we can be a finisher for a dog. But the answer is “yes.” We definitely want to do this again. After everything we’ve gone through with her, the experience has been so positive. It’s hard work but so rewarding in so many different ways. We’ll keep you updated.
Claire: Very cool. So what is the turn-in process. I know we’ll probably talk about this five more times.
Joy: Five million more times. As I know so far, and it has changed since COVID – what they used to do and what I actually experienced when I graduated with JT, they have this huge graduation ceremony where all the puppy raisers bring their puppies for turn in. They have this huge parade, like turning in your puppy, and they make a big deal out of it. It’s their way of saying “thank you” and recognizing puppy raisers and giving them the attention they deserve. It’s really cute. They give them these graduation gowns. It’s pretty adorable. They call it the matriculation for puppy raisers. And on the same day, they have the graduation for the dogs who just went through team training, which is what JT and I did. You get this – it makes me cry thinking about it. If Cadet were to graduate, we would be invited to the graduation ceremony where then the puppy raiser hands the leash over to the graduate on stage. It’s really sweet, and everybody cries. JT’s puppy raisers did that to me where they walk on stage and hand me the leash and everybody cries. There’s not like a dry eye in the house. It’s very, very sweet. So that’s the big to do. Now what I believe and what we’ve been told is we go and we have to schedule a time to drop off the puppy. So we scheduled a time on Friday the 12th. We show up. And the nice thing is we’re in touch with Cadet’s sister, so we scheduled for the same turn in time. So it’s cute, we’ll be together at the same time. Which kind of gives me some comfort that she’ll be with her sister. Not that dogs know that. But I know that. Dogs don’t really care, but I care. So we’ll be turning in with her sister Capris and her puppy raiser Dennis. You meet with the trainer, so we’ll schedule about 15-20 minutes to meet with the trainer. Each trainer at Canine Companions is assigned a certain number of dogs that they train through advanced training the entire time. So Cadet will be assigned to a trainer. That trainer will meet us, talk to us, and then every month the trainer sends you a progress report to let you know how your puppy is doing. That’s when we’ll know these are her strengths, these are her weaknesses. These are what she still needs to work on. Blah, blah, blah. And at any time during this process, you can get a phone call and be like, “She’s not meant to be a service dog, Joy. Do you want her as a pet?” That’s what turn in day will look like. It will look a little bit different. It’s not like the big to do that it used to be, which I’m actually fine with. Because it’s in between of ripping the Band-Aid but also having a little bit of time to process and hand her over to the trainer. But I had some friends who did it during COVID where I’m like, this would kill me. The trainers are up by the front door, and there’s all these kennels at the bottom, and you just put your dog in a kennel and walk away.
Claire: No!
Joy: Yes. Because the COVID protocol was so strict. This was before vaccines. This was in 2020. And one of the girls I follow, her Instagram handle – I highly suggest you guys follow her. It’s @fosteringpuppies on Instagram. She is a Canine Companions lifer. She has been raising dogs since she was 16, and now she’s in her young 20’s. She’s adorable. She’s raised a ton of CCI dogs. She had to do that for one of her dogs in 2020. I just remember one of her Instagram stories, she opened the kennel, put him in, and had to walk away. That is truly a ripping the Band-Aid that I’m not sure I could handle. You can’t sit and meet the trainer and be like, “Bye, have fun, good luck.” So that’s what it will look like. And then we did schedule to just come home the next day because I don’t think we’re going to be in a place to want to hang out and party in California. So yeah.
Claire: Okay.
Joy: So that’s heavy on my heart guys.
Claire: In a few more weeks. Not yet.
Joy: It’s a lot going on.
Claire: Today is Miles’ birthday. We’re recording this on Monday, so that’s exciting.
Joy: Happy birthday, Miles.
Claire: Happy birthday, Miles. He is six. I know a lot of you out there have been listening since before he was even born, so if you guys – I feel like every mom says this about every birthday. I can’t believe it’s already been this long. I can’t believe he’s already this old. But it really is crazy to think that he’s been here for six years. And it’s also crazy to think what I was going through on this day last year.
Joy: Oh my gosh.
Claire: I don’t remember the episode where I tell Miles’ birth story. It’s an old, old, old episode of Girls Gone WOD.
Joy: Yeah.
Claire: The short version is that I went into labor on Friday night and he was born on Sunday afternoon. So, it was a long process.
Joy: Please tell the story because I love the story so much. If you don’t mind. And about how the nurses were like, “No…” I don’t know who they were, but you got to the hospital and they’re like, “No, you’re not ready yet.” You’re like, “I’m not leaving.”
Claire: So I went into labor on Friday night. I labored at home until Saturday night. And then on Saturday night, I was like, I’m exhausted. I need to go in. For Evie, I had planned a home birth. But for Miles, that was not on my plan. I knew I always was going to be going in. My doula was at my house. My mom and Brandon. So we went to the hospital. We got there. I had been in labor already for like 20 hours. They checked me, and I was at a 0. If you have ever been in that situation, you know just how heartbreaking it is. They were like, “Okay, well, you can walk around. We’ll check you again in an hour or two.” So I walked the halls in the hospital for an hour and a half. It was so horribly brutal. Now looking back, I know it was because Miles was really not engaged. Something was going on in my pelvis. There was a bone-to-bone situation happening in my pelvis, and it was horrible.
Joy: And didn’t he also have – there was a separate sack that was preventing him from –
Claire: Yeah. The way that his placenta was set up was it had an extra lobe, I think. Anyway, he never was able to drop.
Joy: Yeah, yeah.
Claire: Anyway, he was just not interested in being born. So then afterwards, after I walked around and was horribly in miserable pain, I came back. In the triage room, they check me again. “You haven’t moved. So we can give you some pain killers and send you home.” I was like, “I am not leaving here without a baby. What are my other options?”
Joy: Change that answer.
Claire: They’re like, “Okay.” So they admitted me, gave me some morphine. The nurses 100% didn’t think I was really in labor, even though by this time I was 41 weeks. They were like, “Okay, we’re going to give you morphine,” and they gave me morphine, and it was like they were trying to kick me out of what they thought was false labor. And it didn’t kick me out. It made me groggy, but I was still having contractions. At one point the nurse came in and she was like, “You weren’t supposed to still be having contractions.” I was like, “Lady, I don’t know what to tell you.” She was not my favorite. And then my midwife was really great. She came in and was like, “What do you want to do? How do you want to do this?” I got moved into a room that had a tub. Labored all night, and then the next morning they checked me again and I still was at like a 1. I was like, I can’t do this anymore. I have been in labor for 35 whatever hours. I’m exhausted. Right before the checked me, she was like, “Let’s talk about this. What’s the plan?” I was like, “If I’m not going to be pushing in the next hour, I need an epidural.” She checked me and she said, “So you’re at a 1. So you know it’s not super likely you’re going to be pushing in the next hour.” I was like, “Okay, I want drugs.” Which was fine. I feel like this is so common for pregnant people where you have a decision in your head. You’re like, “I’m going to do it natural. This is what my body was made for.” And I agree with that. I went on to have a home birth with Evie that was unmedicated. Honestly that experience was so much less intense than going through the whole thing with Miles. Anyway, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having those beliefs about yourself because I think they’re true. And I think it’s setting yourself up for thinking “I can do this. My body knows what to do.” And then if you don’t have that experience, it really can cause a ton of self-doubt and a ton of doubt in your body, which I went through for years after having Miles. So then, the midwife was like, “Shift change is about to happen. If you want an epidural, you have to get it right now.” I was like, “Yes, great. I’m just going to go to the bathroom.” So I go in to go pee. The anesthesiologist comes into the room, and I’m in the bathroom. He’s like, “Is she in there?” I’m naked in the bathroom peeing, and I’m like, “Hold on, I’m coming out.” Like, “Do not leave.”
Joy: Don’t you dare leave.
Claire: I knew that if he walked out of the room, a new anesthesiologist wasn’t going to come back for another couple of hours probably after they did rounds and everything. I was like, “Get him in here right now.” The guy was like, “Okay.” I have never in my life felt more relief than when I got the epidural. Ten out of ten, would do it again.
Joy: Ten out of ten.
Claire: It was great. I loved it. And yeah, then Miles was born like four hours later. They put me on Pitocin, and I went from a 1 to a 10 in four hours.
Joy: God. And I just remember you telling me that your hands were sore the next day.
Claire: Oh my gosh, my whole body. My biceps were sore from baring down.
Joy: Everything is clenched. You were like, “My hands were sore.”
Claire: At the time, I was like, if I had not been a CrossFitter and been used to this amount of soreness, I would be alarmed.
Joy: Something is going on. This is very concerning. If I hadn’t done 30 back squats in a row at one point in my life.
Claire: So that’s the nutshell story of Miles’ birth, and now he’s six. It’s crazy. Then of course, the big thing was that it then kicked off about eight months of postpartum depression. Every time I talk about my birth story with Miles, I always want to bring up that postpartum depression happened to me. It can happen to anyone. It has nothing to do with your birth story. It really doesn’t. I was healthy, Miles was healthy. It took a long time, but there was not any trauma associated with it really. That’s something that people have a misconception about, that if you have a “normal, healthy birth” – people think postpartum depression only happens if you had a birth trauma, and that’s not the case. There was an episode that I did a couple years ago with Noelle from Coconuts and Kettlebells where she talks about her postpartum anxiety and I talk about my postpartum depression – we’ll do a link to it in the show notes, but that’s where I really go deep into what happened, how it felt, what I did. But the thing I always tell my new mom friends is in the first couple weeks, and really the first month, it’s really normal to not really know what day it is, not really remember did I eat, did I not eat. Don’t really know what day it is because you’re up all the time. But it’s not really normal to not feel like you’re present in your life. That’s sort of an amalgamous way to describe it, but if you’ve ever been there, you understand what I mean. It’s normal to not really know what’s going on. It’s not normal to feel totally detached. I wish that was a distinction that someone had told me. Hey, you’re going to feel tired and confused, but you shouldn’t feel detached. “Shouldn’t” is a strong word. If you feel detached, that might be a red flag, and that might be something you want to talk to someone about. Just get your feet back on the ground a little bit. I wish that someone had – I try to voice a lot of what I consider to be red flags but didn’t really know how to advocate for myself. A lot of people around me were like, “Yeah, of course. You’re tired, you’re confused, you’re overwhelmed. That’s normal.” I wish that someone had said, “But do you feel like your future still exists?” And I would have been like, “No, I don’t. I feel like this is my life now. I feel like I’ve lost myself. There’s no way to ever find myself again.” Yeah, I think that for me – it’s different for everyone, but for me that was the distinction was feeling so detached and so certain that my life would never feel normal again. That can happen also – for me, postpartum depression happened pretty much immediately, but it can happen any time technically I think the diagnostic criteria is anywhere in the first year. But I definitely had friends describe what I would consider to be postpartum depression well into the toddler years. So that’s my plug for postpartum mental health. Resources are out there. Don’t just wait until your six-week checkup where you fill out that little worksheet where it’s like, “Have you been sleeping more than normal?” And you’re like, I don’t sleep. Why are you asking me these dumb questions?
Joy: Yeah, the questionnaire’s not super thorough and I wish more medical professionals were trained in at least having a mental health professional intervene at that point to at least do a little more thorough evaluation.
Claire: And six weeks is a long time to wait for an evaluation too.
Joy: I will link to some resources for postpartum mental health in the show notes. And then Niki Brazier is going to be on our Girls Gone WOD episode this week. It’s a part two because the part one we just got to talking, so we had to do a part two. And she’s also going to talk about her experience with postpartum anxiety, so be sure to listen to that one.
Claire: All that to say, we’re really happy that Miles is six. He’s so great. Getting out of five has been so fun. I feel like he’s really coming into his own. He’s just becoming so much more aware of the people around him and their feelings. He’s really starting to – not worry about other people, but just notice them and how his actions will affect other people. It’s just been so great. And kindergarten has been wonderful for him, so I’m so grateful for that. He’s just so funny. He’s so goofy. But not like hyper. I feel like a lot of little boys his age are goofy-hyper. He’s this soft-spoken goofy that makes it so funny.
Joy: That’s the best kind of funny.
Claire: It really is. Oh my goodness. Okay, so for this week’s episode, like I was saying, asked –
Joy: You also have some other big news to share.
Claire: We’ll get to that. Hold on.
Joy: Okay, okay.
Claire: I have some news to share. We’ll get to that. Because somebody asked a question that I was like – I don’t know, Joy is like, “Claire!” I always forget to – so at the beginning before we hit record, we’re always like, “What are we going to talk about? Let’s get an overview.” And then half the time we end up forgetting stuff we said we were going to talk about. But I asked on Instagram mere moments ago for some random questions, and you guys have really delivered. One of them is what is the biggest change in your life recently? So Joy, do you want to take that question first?
Joy: Biggest change in my life recently was getting a new job. I’m going to make this super brief because I want you to talk more about yours. I was reflecting just this morning on this year and how 2020 was hard on all of us. It was really difficult, no question there. And for whatever reason, I was expecting 2021 to be a little bit of a relief. I think we all were. It just threw my whole life upside down. I left my job. We’re turning in Cadet. That’s been a big thing for us of having her in our lives. Scott’s probably going to change his job too. That’s kind of in the works right now. These big, big changes that were kind of unexpected. There’s also a big loss in my family this year. These are things that you’re just reminded that you just never know what the frick life is going to throw at you. But as far as the change recently, that’s probably the new job and I think collectively just changing jobs. Because I cannot stress this enough. Going from that 90 mph to 30 mph has completely changed my perspective of what is important to me and health and wellness and all of that collectively. That’s my non-answer answer.
Claire: And my answer is that I also got a new job. Woohoo.
Joy: Yay, big year.
Claire: As you were talking and you were like, “I’m going to let you get to your news,” I was like I wonder if people out there think I’m about to say I’m pregnant. No, I’m not. No. No, thank you. I am getting a new job. So a couple of weeks ago, we were posting on Instagram about how there are so many rounds of job interviews to go through. That was my post, but I was like, this is great. Everyone thinks it’s Joy because Joy is really open about her job.
Joy: Totally.
Claire: I’m leaving my current job on very good terms. This is the first time I’ve ever left where I didn’t have this feeling of, I have to get out of here right now. I really am sad to be going, and I’m really excited for my next opportunity. I’m still going to be doing marketing. It’s back in the outdoor industry. It’s a pretty well-known brand. I feel like today I’m not going to share what brand it is, but I probably will eventually. I’m just really excited. It’s a company based in Denver, but it’s all remote and hybrid and still in the marketing world. I start next Monday. So when you guys hear this, I will have just gotten back from a trade show in Las Vegas. So I cannot coast in my final week. I have to go to a trade show.
Joy: Which I have to say, the last few days or week of a job, coasting is really the best and I really wish you would have had that.
Claire: It is, and I get it. I can’t do it. I have to go. I have to get up at 4 o’clock in the morning and get on a Southwest flight that I forgot to check into. Now I’m in Group C.
Joy: I hate that so much. Can you get the upgrade? Just get the upgrade.
Claire: For real.
Joy: I’ve done that before. I’m just like, screw this.
Claire: I normally do it. I just am out of practice and am so annoyed. So anyway, I’m going to go to Vegas. I also hate Vegas, but whatever. Going to go to this trade show. It will be fine. It will hopefully make the week go by faster. My last day will be Friday, and then next Monday will be my first week with my new job. I’m really excited.
Joy: Congratulations. Big changes. That’s so exciting. #girlboss
Claire: #girlboss No. Hashtag still working for a large corporation because I want benefits and not to be my own boss.
Joy: Benefits are great. That’s a big reason I wanted to get a job with a company is I’m not there yet. Maybe some point in my life.
Claire: I feel like a couple of years ago I had a post about this. I think that on Instagram it can be so easy to look at all these other people and think that everyone should have this goal of being their own boss and everyone’s like, “I can’t believe I spent so much time in the 9-5. Now I’m my own boss.” It’s so glamorized. So glamorized to be an entrepreneur. And if that’s your path, then that’s great. I tried it, and I hated it.
Joy: Yeah. Yes, I totally agree with that. I also would like to know the percentage, if there’ some kind of source out there, of people that are really “making it” with their entrepreneurship. I guess maybe influencers. I think influencers is the ones who are kind of glorifying this girl boss culture. And what’s your 401(k) look like? Is that through work, and is that through your business? I’d like to know. I’m super grateful. I have an amazing 401(k) nest egg because of my 9-5 job that I started in my 20’s and was there for 11 years and worked for the government. Because they match more than what you give in the government. Those are the years that, yeah, I was doing a 9-5 job, but –
Claire: Right, you were working for the man.
Joy: Yes. It’s interesting.
Claire: Even, yes benefits are important. Health insurance in America is such a crock and still having it through your employer is –
Joy: That’s not nothing.
Claire: Not nothing. Even outside it, take away all the perks. I still had such a hard time trying to be an entrepreneur. It was just not for me. I wanted that group environment. I wanted to be a part of a bigger pool of ideas and pool of leadership. I wanted to feel like I had mentorship opportunities in my same field, in my same company. And I’m not saying that those things aren’t available if you’re an entrepreneur, but it’s a little bit different and it was not something that felt like a fit for me. I’m excited to continue to work my way up the corporate ladder.
Joy: Yeah. I think that’s great. And I think that’s a good point what you said earlier, and I certainly am not trying to put down the entrepreneur life. At all. So everyone out there that’s doing their own thing, I think what I’m trying to clarify is it’s not all that it’s cracked up to be. That the grass is always greener. That’s really what I’m saying.
Claire: So yeah, very exciting. Yay. Okay, let’s get into some of these questions. What is Claire’s pie book again? It’s called The Book on Pie. Highly, highly, highly recommend it. We already talked about it – Joy will get another puppy after Cadet. What’s the best pandemic purchase you’ve made? This person says, “Mine is a kitty.”
Joy: Aw. Kitty. Do you have one?
Claire: I mean, we did get a puppy.
Joy: Yeah, a lot of people got –
Claire: I wouldn’t say it was the best one though. She’s a nightmare.
Joy: She just ate your couch.
Claire: Okay, that’s another question. Someone was like, I want to hear about River eating your couch.
Joy: Yeah, go for it.
Claire: So, River ate our couch. We had to get a new one. We had this crappy couch that has a little story behind it, so let me tell you. A couple years ago, I wanted that deep green velvet couch that was all over Instagram in 2018 or 2019. I wanted it, and I was like, “I’m going to get it. Our living room is tiny. It needs a giant statement piece of furniture.” Which is incorrect by the way. [laughing] The way to liven up a tiny room is not to put a giant piece of statement furniture into it. But I was talking to my stepmom who is very into interior decorating. She was like, “Claire, you don’t want a velvet couch. Your kids are disgusting.” This was before we had a dog, but she was like, “You’re probably going to get another dog sometime soon. Velvet is not the fabric for this phase in your life.” And she was like, “To prove it to you, for Christmas I’m going to buy you this $300 version of the couch that you want.” This kind of crappy, literally I think it was $300 or less blue velvet couch. Sure enough, within a couple of weeks, I was like, “She was right.” Velvet shows all the snot, all the yogurt that was on the face. Because kids are just fluid. They’re so sticky. Velvet really just shows stickiness. So I was like, alright, I’m glad for that lesson. And it’s still a perfectly good couch, so we’re just going to keep it and deal with the messy looking couch because I didn’t buy it, and it will get us hopefully through this phase where everybody’s a mess. And then we got River, and she one morning ate the front corner off one of the cushions. All of the cushions are attached, so we couldn’t flip the cushion over. Then slowly but surely over the next couple days, she tore open that hole more and more until one morning I came out. The way that it works is that River sleeps in a crate, and Brandon takes her out on a walk in the morning. And then there’s normally a 20–30-minute window after Brandon leaves and before I get up. We just give her a bone, a big chew toy, and then just let her hang out in the living room. We get everything up off the floor. We take everything away that she could possibly chew on. Because if we put her back in her crate, she barks and then everybody wakes up. I came out, and she had just torn off the whole cushion like it was a lid and had pulled out all the stuffing. So that was the end of that couch. Now it lives in our garage until free dump day, which is in like three weeks.
Joy: Oh my gosh, River.
Claire: I also don’t want to pay $100 for something like junk collection to come pick it up.
Joy: Yeah.
Claire: So then I found a $100 couch on Craig’s List, which also turned out to be a thing because this person had no memory of how she got it into her apartment. She’s like, “I don’t know. My boyfriend did it.” We could not get it out. We had to hoist it over the balcony.
Joy: Way, of her house?
Claire: Of her apartment.
Joy: Of her apartment.
Claire: She lived on the second floor. Granted, the first floor was a garden level, so the second floor was only a half of a story up. But we literally had to hoist it over her balcony because we could not get it out her front door.
Joy: Oh my gosh.
Claire: She was like, “I don’t know how they got it in. My boyfriend did it.” I’m like, “Did he assemble it in your apartment?” She’s like, “I don’t think so.” I’m like, “I think yes.”
Joy: Oh my gosh. How do you not know that?
Claire: Maybe he got it in through the back balcony. The only way it could have happened is if they had taken off her front door, which maybe they did. She was not into that idea of two strangers coming over and being like – because the post was like, “You have to move it.” We totally trashed her entry way trying to get it out of there, but whatever. So anyway. My best pandemic purchase was not a couch. I would say probably the puppy. I feel like we didn’t buy that much stuff during the pandemic.
Joy: Yeah, I feel like I bought a kit of Dazzle Dry that I was really excited about back then because that was $90 for a nail polish kit. That’s kind of a lot, but at the same time I remember thinking I don’t buy anything right now and I like nail polish. But then I would also say I probably did buy a good pair of leggings at Lululemon or I’m pretty sure I got a couple of really good pair of sweatpants from JoyLab at Target. I remember buying these things again. I normally don’t buy a lot of things. I try to use what I have, so I try not to have an excess of clothes. I do the one in and one out thing. But I remember buying these things being like, it’s a pandemic. I was going into work, so I had work clothes. But I remember comfy clothes was a big piece of the pandemic, as all of us were just wanting to be comfortable and soothed by clothing. So that’s what I would say.
Claire: Totally. Okay. If you couldn’t drink coffee, what would you drink in the morning?
Joy: Probably chai. I’d probably be like a golden milk latte, or some type of chai mix.
Claire: I don’t love the golden milk.
Joy: Really?
Claire: I tried to make it work. That turmeric taste, I just don’t like it in a drink. If I couldn’t drink coffee, I probably just wouldn’t drink anything in the morning. I don’t know.
Joy: I have to have a hot beverage though. That’s kind of the thing.
Claire: I probably would just drink tea. If you could have a drink with anyone dead or alive, what would the drink be? No, no, no wait. I did not see this coming. If you could have a drink with anyone dead or alive, what would the drink be? This is from Tilly. Great question Tilly.
Joy: Tilly, way to just throw us for a loop.
Claire: And way to know what I actually want to answer.
Joy: Exactly. It’s great, it’s great. I mean, my go-to is a good class of wine. Like a Tempranillo. I like Tempranillo.
Claire: I had this amazing grapefruit margarita over the summer, and I’ve just really been craving it ever since then. So I would go back in time and have that grapefruit margarita. Then I went back to that same restaurant maybe a couple of weeks later and I ordered it again and it wasn’t the same. Whoever that bartender was that nigh –
Joy: Don’t you hate that where it’s so specific to the bartender. But I don’t know what is going on with me lately. Maybe it’s just that I don’t really drink that much, but in the past few years, if I even have a tiny bit of hard alcohol, I am done for the next day. I can feel it, and it’s really sad because I can’t even rally with one drink of hard liquor. So wine it is.
Claire: I’ve actually gotten that way with wine.
Joy: Really?
Claire: If I drink wine, I get a migraine the next day. Womp, womp.
Joy: I was so mad one time this summer. Pretty sure I talked about it where I was at a friend’s house. It was summertime. You want some white wine, chilled white wine. I’m not a big white wine drinker. I don’t like sugary drinks at all. It just doesn’t taste good to me. White wine’s usually more sugary to me to the taste. It has nothing to do with diet. It just doesn’t taste good. I’m like whatever, I’ll just drink some white wine. It’s what she’s serving. And then the next day I felt like crap. I was just like, dang it, Joy, you’re not that old. Come on. But whatever. Alcohol’s stupid. We don’t need to drink it.
Claire: I know. I feel like my alternate answer to this would be – can it be soup? Can I drink soup?
Joy: How about some ice cream? How about a baked good?
Claire: How about a milk shake? I actually can’t drink milk because of my lactose problem.
Joy: That’s right.
Claire: People are really asking about drinks. What is the bougiest coffee drink to try? I don’t know.
Joy: Bougiest coffee drink to try. It says –
Claire: Iced Americano and chocolate and oat milk.
Joy: The bougiest. I don’t know because I don’t like a lot in my coffee. So maybe it’s like when you go to a place where they do the – what is it? The…
Claire: The super fancy pour over.
Joy: Thank you, yes. That’s probably what I would say.
Claire: That’s fair. I don’t really have an answer to that either because I don’t like a lot of stuff in mine. I usually get cortados, which I feel like is bougie. I’m ordering a cortado, and I’m like, “Um, yes, can I have a cortado. I’m going to drink it in my vintage Vespa with a side car with a pug in it.”
Joy: With aviators on. And I have shoes with no socks.
Claire: [laughing]
Joy: I remember back at the D.A.’s office, I’ll never forget I would go to this Starbucks, and I would say, “Can I have a coffee with steamed soy?” Back then, that’s just what I was drinking. And every single time, the guy would say, “You mean a soy misto?” And I’d be like, “Sure, dude.”
Claire: [mocking voice] “You mean a soy misto?” Like, I don’t know dude. Yeah, just correct me every time.
Joy: Okay fine, a soy misto. “Do you mean a soy misto?”
Claire: Yes, that’s what I mean.
Joy: No, a coffee with steamed soy.
Claire: You should have been like, “No, it’s different. No, that’s not what that is. I know.”
Joy: It was so stupid.
Claire: Oh, people and their coffee names. Alright. Birthday cake or birthday tacos? Definitely birthday tacos, obviously.
Joy: Birthday cake. Go ahead.
Claire: I know. Is it true that if you don’t use it, you lose it?
Joy: Depends. I think about riding a bike. If you don’t use it, it’s just like riding a bike. You get back on. Muscle memory stuff is pretty strong. Maybe not, maybe not. I think of – oh, Scott, bless your heart. But he always jokes – we’ll be walking by a basketball court, and he’ll be like, “I can go dunk with those guys.” Because he used to play basketball. I’m like, “You absolutely cannot. You’re going to pull a muscle.”
Claire: I’m sorry to say this. No, you could not.
Joy: It’s the same for me. Whenever I see dancers, I want to go dance. But I’m like, no, I’m going to pull a muscle. I’m going to pull something because my brain’s 25, but my body’s 44. So it’s kind of like the muscle memory with some things. So maybe light activity muscle memory. Riding a bike is light activity. Otherwise if you’re a professional athlete, you’re probably going to lose it if you don’t use it.
Claire: I’m thinking of this in more abstract terms. I think that generally speaking there is a point of diminishing returns where if you haven’t used a skill or something in a long time, I think the short answer that I would give is, yes, that’s true. How many pillows do you sleep with?
Joy: Three.
Claire: Wow, I only sleep with one.
Joy: You’re going to laugh. I sleep with my head on one. I put one over my head. And then I hold onto a big one.
Claire: Okay. I just sleep with the one under my head.
Joy: There’s something about heaviness on top of my head that makes me fall asleep.
Claire: I can’t. I also sleep on my bad.
Joy: Oh wow, that would not be good. Yeah, I’m a side sleeper. You’re going to suffocate.
Claire: You only have $30 to spend at Sephora. What are you buying? I’m texting Joy to ask what to buy.
Joy: If I only had $30 at Sephora, I would buy a pack of their face wipes. Sephora brand, I would go all Sephora brand because you’re going to get more bang for your buck. Sephora brand face wipes, preferably the charcoal ones. I think those are $12. Then I would buy a Sephora mascara or an eyeliner. Then depending on how much those were, I’d get a pack of the Dr. Dennis face wipes magical peel that I referenced on last week’s episode. That would probably be around $30.
Claire: Wow.
Joy: Supermarket sweep.
Claire: For real.
Joy: And if you had any extra dollars, when you’re going through the checkout line, they do a great job of putting sample size, travel size everything to your heart’s content.
Claire: I think that’s a good idea. I think I would just go through the checkout line.
Joy: And look for little trial sizes. But sometimes they’re so expensive, where It’s like, I could get a full size of this. The markup on those is ridiculous, but yet, there you go.
Claire: Where’s the first vacation destination you want to go once the pandemic is history?
Joy: Mine is pretty obvious. I want to go back to Kona so bad.
Claire: I’ve been saying this this whole time. I really want to go to Scotland. And I would really like a beach. Let’s see here. Oh, this is a big one. Saying “I love you” for the first time – stories, advice, fears. One time in college, I said “I love you” in college to my college boyfriend and he didn’t say it back. And he never did. And we were still together after that probably for like six months.
Joy: Oh my gosh. I’m watching Succession right now. Which, you guys, I’m obsessed with that show. If you have HBO plus or HBO whatever, the app, it’s great. It’s one of the best shows on television. There’s a married couple and they’re going through some hard times right now. The wife is like, “I love you,” and he just goes, “Thank you” because he’s so mad at her. I think Ross and Rachel had that for a while or something. I think there was a Friends episode where he was like, “Thank you,” and they were like, “Aren’t you going to say it back?” But I will tell a story. I feel like I’m hesitant to share this. I might cut this out. But it’s actually really funny because when Scott and I were first dating, I was just very… I was ready to be in a relationship, but I was super scared to be in a relationship. I remember about 3.5-4 months into our relationship, we took a trip to Phoenix together. He had to do some work there, so I went with him. I was really nervous to go because I was like, oh my gosh, this is getting serious. I kind of freaked out. I remember him telling me he loved me on that trip. I had feared this so much because he watched this episode of Grey’s Anatomy with me where one of the guy nurses where, someone says “I love you” to him, and he’s like, “When I say it, I really want to mean it.” And I didn’t say it back to him at the time. I was like, “When I say it, I really want to mean it.” And I remember thinking, oh my God, did I just quote a line from Grey’s Anatomy? [laughing] But eventually, you guys, it turned out great. We love each other very much. But I just remember thinking, oh my gosh, poor Joy. You’re so young and damaged, and you literally quoted Grey’s Anatomy to your boyfriend. But that’s a funny story.
Claire: I will say, when I said it to my boyfriend and he didn’t say it back, I was devastated and I called and told my mom. My mom was like, “When you say that to someone, you are giving them a gift and you can’t expect anything in return. You need to just be okay with giving them that gift. If they say it back to you, then that’s great. But that can’t be the expectation.”
Joy: That’s good mom advice.
Claire: It is good mom advice. It is scary though. It is so scary. It’s so vulnerable.
Joy: It totally is. It totally is. Yeah.
Claire: Okay, let’s do some quick ones. What are your email styles? Are you an inbox zero or 28,000 unread messages person?
Joy: What do you think?
Claire: Inbox zero.
Joy: Yeah.
Claire: Yeah. I have both. My junk account is like 28,000. Seriously, what is it? Let me tell you.
Joy: Oh my gosh. Just your junk account that you give for people you don’t want your actual email to go to?
Claire: Yeah. It used to be my real account. Then over the years, it just got so swarmed by junk. It’s my maiden name email.
Joy: Oh, that’s right.
Claire: It has 25,208 unread emails in there.
Joy: That scares me so much.
Claire: But they’re all junk.
Joy: So why don’t you just delete them all?
Claire: Because that would take time. They’ll just eventually go away.
Joy: You can’t select all, delete all?
Claire: I mean, I could, but that would be ten seconds I’d never get back. Why even bother?
Joy: That’s so scary. There are so many emails just sitting there.
Claire: Who knows, maybe I might need one one day. Cheez-Its or Goldfish?
Joy: Goldfish.
Claire: I agree. I like the plain goldfish too. Favorite holiday and why?
Joy: I do love Thanksgiving. Because of all the food. I do love Thanksgiving. I feel like it’s less pressure than Christmas because Christmas is all the gifts and the pressure to get things done. Thanksgiving is just like we’re getting together, we’re eating a bunch of food, we’re having a good time. We’re watching TV. We’re watching football together. We’re watching movies together. And then the hustle and bustle of Christmas happens.
Claire: I think before I became a mom, my favorite was Thanksgiving. But now that I’m a mom, it’s Christmas just because there’s so much kid magic and so much decorating. I like that it’s more drawn out. For the kids, it’s just so much more fun. If you had 12 big, empty cardboard boxes, what style of box fort would you build?
Joy: I would love to do a snake type of maze. So put it in a big, long tube.
Claire: Like a tunnel?
Joy: In kind of corn maze style where it goes all different ways.
Claire: I think I would do lost boys tree house style. That would be mine. Or recently we made a big cardboard rocket ship. That was cool. What’s your favorite color?
Joy: My joke answer all the time is confetti. Confetti and glitter, anything glitter. I do like red. I think that I look good in red. I just like the color red. I like nail polish red, but not political party red.
Claire: I think my favorite color is purple, kind of like an eggplant purple.
Joy: Oh yeah, that’s definitely you.
Claire: What was your favorite grade in school?
Joy: Probably 9th grade. I really liked junior high. High school is so much fun too, but if I had to think back, the in between of – and for me at the time, 7th-9th was middle school for us. I know it’s changed everywhere. But I love the transition of elementary to middle school where you’re just really figuring out who you are as a teenager. That preteen into teen identity development, but that’s when you develop some of your closest relationships. I remember having such a good time where you’re still kind of a kid but you’re trying to be an adult. Whenever I see teens of that age kind of roaming around, I’m like, oh you’re in such a fun time in life. Even though it’s also so hard. That nostalgia.
Claire: [singing] “I’m not a girl, not yet a woman.”
Joy: It totally is. Where you’re looking back without thinking of the hard parts of it, but it really was magical.
Claire: I think I would have to say I loved my junior year of high school because I could drive, and I feel like my whole world just opened up. I had such a good group of friends. My home life was pretty crappy, so I just spent so much time at school, and I was really involved with my church. I was really involved in choir. I was so involved in things. It was so fun.
Joy: I remember my mom and I were talking about this recently when I was 16 and I was still driving with a permit. So at the time, you had to have an adult with you to drive with a permit. At 16, you could get your license in Arizona. I had a permit, but I would just take the car and go to my boyfriend’s house, even though it was only like a mile away. And my mom would let me go! And she was like, “Joy, I can’t believe I would let you go.” She’s like, “I was always so nervous of you getting pulled over.” I was like, “Yeah, I would just go.” Like, “I’m not going to get caught,” and I would just leave. What a brat I was. It was totally worth it to see CJ.
Claire: Oh CJ. Warm or cold desserts?
Joy: Warm. I can’t, my teeth are too sensitive for cold stuff. I’m so old. Sensodyne all the way.
Claire: Someone’s asking for holiday gift ideas. I feel like we’re going to have to do a whole episode.
Joy: Whole episode on that.
Claire: But we’re going to have to do it soon because of the supply chain issue.
Joy: For sure. Then I’ll get Scott to weigh in because he’s the best gift giver ever.
Claire: Sweet or unsweet tea? I feel like this is not a question in Colorado. That’s not a dichotomy that we face.
Joy: But I will absolutely – unsweetened. I know that’s probably really controversial. But I don’t like sweet things, yeah.
Claire: Werther’s hard candy, delicious or grandma treat?
Joy: Grandma treat. I don’t like them.
Claire: I like them because of the nostalgia of the grandma treat. Do you think actors in drunk scenes are actually drunk or just acting drunk? I hope they’re just acting.
Joy: Unless you’re watching Drunk History, which is one of the best shows on television as well. If you just want to sit and laugh at a brainless show, Drunk History is so funny. I would like to think that they’re just asking drunk. I once read somewhere – I would like somebody to clarify this. I could probably Google it. Another thing I could Google, but I’d rather you tell me. Is it illegal to drink alcohol on television? Meaning, I read something a long time ago that they can’t drink actual alcohol on TV.
Claire: Why would that be illegal?
Joy: I don’t know. Maybe not illegal, but they’re not allowed to. Or maybe the networks didn’t allow it. That was back in the 80’s, guys.
Claire: Yeah, that just sounds like an I Love Lucy thing where they had to sleep in separate beds.
Joy: Oh my gosh, yeah.
Claire: I don’t think that’s real.
Joy: Maybe they can get drunk on television.
Claire: That’s one of the things your mom tells you to get you to stop doing something.
Joy: It’s obviously not true with reality shows because everyone gets hammered. I just mentioned Drunk History, so why would that be illegal?
Claire: I was like, you just gave all these examples of when people have been drunk on television, and you’re asking if it’s illegal?
Joy: Now Drunk History is going to be pulled off television because of me.
Claire: This is one more long question. We got a lot of other cute ones. We’ll do two more fast ones. Favorite Muppet?
Joy: Oh my gosh, I love – is it Beaker? Where he goes [high pitched voice] “me me me.” I love Beaker so much. I love him so much.
Claire: I’ve got to go with Miss Piggy. She’s such an icon, such a feminist icon. Somebody asked, they want to hear you talk about Ted Lasso from the perspective of a therapist.
Joy: That’s going to be another day. I love Ted Lasso. I love Ted Lasso. But yes, another day I can do that.
Claire: Alright, this is the last one of the day. Seems like you both live such fun lives. How do you prioritize fun over chores, or are you secret productivity gurus? [laughing]
Joy: It’s so funny. This is where I’m like, social media, how do we portray ourselves that we have fun lives? I prioritize fun over chores. One weird thing about me is I love to do chores at my house. It’s very weird. So I am constantly doing chores. You could probably name a day and I did a chore that day. So I don’t save up chores. I also have four animals in my house, so I have to vacuum every day or else our house is just overrun with hair. But prioritizing… hmm. I do like to be productive, but I don’t feel like I have any other advantage as far as getting a lot of stuff done. I also try not to do the hustle culture, but prioritizing fun over chores, I would say I try to do something every day. It feels good to me to knock things off of a to-do list. That doesn’t mean I put ten things on a to-do list, and I’m like, “Every single one is done.” But I put things down that I’m like, I would like to get this done today. What’s something that I absolutely need to get done? And then what’s something that would be nice to get done? That is a personality thing, and I don’t think is universal to everybody, and I don’t think everyone is the same with that. Some people are just like, I don’t really care about getting chores done every day. I’ll just save it for the weekend. I don’t have someone that comes and cleans my house because I like to do it myself. I just feel like it kind of depends on the person. What about you?
Claire: I think an important thing with this question is understanding the differences in our daily lives as a whole. Like last weekend Brandon was out of town, my mom had the kids overnight because we had gone to a wedding the night before and then Brandon left at like six in the morning. I woke up, I walked the dog, we recorded a podcast, and I was like, “This is what Joy’s life is like every single Saturday.” It wasn’t that I didn’t have stuff to do, but all of the stuff that I wanted to do, I didn’t have to manage anyone else, and it just felt like so much freedom. I think there’s a big difference when you just think about, what do you have to work with? And so for me, prioritizing fun over chores, I can’t really prioritize fun over chores because our house is small – so many people live here. The house has to stay clean. I guess I just don’t really separate them that much. I’m sort of always cleaning. And I have some non-negotiables. Like I have to clean the kitchen every night. The kitchen has to be clean every night before I go to bed. I have some things that I just don’t care about. Like putting laundry away. Sometimes it doesn’t happen for weeks at a time. That’s sort of how I find that balance. The other thing is trying to make little moments special throughout the day so that it doesn’t feel like we have to go above and beyond to have fun. So like for Miles’ breakfast this morning, he had chocolate cake for breakfast. Or if we’re driving home, maybe we’ll stop at Starbucks and get a lemonade on the way home. These are food examples, but maybe in the middle of making dinner, I’ll come up with a way to just do five minutes of a little craft. Or we’ll do peek-a-boo around the corner of the kitchen wall while I’m unloading the dishwasher. Little moments throughout the day where I can just spend two minutes doing something that feels fun while I’m still in the middle of doing the housework or working working. I think the other big thing to remember is I have a full-time childcare helper who lives in our house. Not to say she works 24/7. She definitely doesn’t. She has her hours, and she’s really good about when she’s not working, she’s in her room or she’s out of the house. We try very hard not to ask her to help when she’s not on the clock. I think all of those things are just important to be upfront about, that we have a lot of resources that allow me to focus on fun because someone else is taking care of my kids during the day.
Joy: It kind of depends on what you clarify as fun. Not to go down a rabbit hole. But outside world objectively looking at me, I don’t know if people would think my life is that fun if they were to really follow me around for a day. I mean, I walk my dogs and I clean the house and I run some errands. But like right now, I’m not working full time, so my life probably looks really fun and exciting because I’m outside a lot and I’m doing fun things and watching a lot of Netflix. That’s just not usually reality for me. Granted, I have a lot of different things going on in my life. But I think you’re right, it kind of depends on where you are. Instagram isn’t reality, that’s also a thing.
Claire: One last question that just came in because it’s funny and it’s quick, and I think it will leave on a fun note. What would aid your survival of an apocalypse based on what is abundant in your house? [laughing]
Joy: Oh, that’s so great. I have so many paper towels. I have horded. I mean, I could clean up anything that spills, any hazardous materials, blood because I’m sure –
Claire: If you need paper towels, come to Joy.
Joy: You could just wrap yourself in it for warmth. I’ve got a lot. Come on over.
Claire: Hey, paper towels are technically sterile. You could have surgery thing going on. What is abundant in my house? Stickers. We have a lot of stickers everywhere right now, so if you need an apocalypse sticker.
Joy: I have a lot of ear plugs. I don’t know where they came from. I was looking for the pumpkin carving kit because I knew I had one, and I carved a pumpkin this past weekend, and I pulled out a huge bag of ear plugs. Just the disposable ones. No idea where they came from, but I have a ton of them. If you need one, message me. I will send them to you in the mail. If you need a pair, free of charge.
Claire: That’s hysterical. I mean, we have a lot of food. We have a half cow we get every year. We’re about to come around the horn to get our next half cow. Normally that happens in November or December. Assuming that during the apocalypse the power wouldn’t go out – I really need to get a generator in case the power goes out and we don’t lose all of our beef. Other than that though, kids craft supplies. I hope that those are going to come in handy during the apocalypse.
Joy: Stickers. Crafts. Great.
Claire: Markers. Crayons. Alright, guys, well thank you for joining us.
Joy: That was fun.
Claire: That was fun.
Joy: That was really fun. Thank you, guys, for the questions.
Claire: You can find us on Instagram at @joyandclaire_. You can find us online, joyandclaire.com. You can email us, thisisjoyandclaire@gmail.com. Don’t forget to check out our other two podcasts, On Your Marks, Get Set, Bake! which is our podcast covering The Great British Baking Show. And Girls Gone WOD which is our podcast that gears more towards health and fitness. Please like, comment, share, tell your friends about us, leave us a comment on our Instagram. Any way that you can help us spread the word about our podcast is super, super helpful. And we will talk to you next week.
Joy: Thanks guys.
Claire: Bye.
Joy: Bye.
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