64: Reclaiming March

March 4, 2021

Claire is in Durango, reclaiming March, Billie Eilish documentary, how to pick a gym, how we met our husbands, and listner Q&A!



email: thisisjoyandclaire@gmail.com

instagram: joyandclaire_

This is Joy & Claire Episode 64: Reclaiming March

Episode Date: March 4, 2021

Audio Length: 55:26 minutes 


  • Page 10 [00:24:13.19] Check the spelling of “Gray’s” – could not verify the place/spelling.
  • Page 13 [00:31:06.29] Confirm spelling of Wakeen


Joy: Hey guys, this is Joy.

Claire: And this is Claire.

Joy: And this is Joy and Claire. And it’s March. Time happens, it’s March.

Claire: Oh my gosh, I’m so excited.

Joy: Yeah, but we’re not thinking about last year’s March. Let’s not do that.

Claire: No. Banish that to the ethers. 

Joy: I saw a meme that was some movie with Natalie Portman where it was us thinking about last year’s March, and it was this very scary look on her face from some horror movie. It’s okay. Let it pass. We’re moving on. We’re not there anymore.

Claire: We’re reclaiming March.

Joy: We are reclaiming March.

Claire: And we’re excited about it.

Joy: And how are you doing that, Claire?

Claire: I love March. Okay, so I do really like winter. This winter was a little anticlimactic because I didn’t really get to go skiing. Although, right now – You guys are going to hear this on Thursday. We’re recording this on Sunday because we took a little family road trip to Durango, which is –

Joy: Far.

Claire: – this super cute mountain town. Far. It’s about 6-ish hours from Denver. It’s very near Mesa Verde. It’s pretty close to the southwest corner of the state of Colorado, if any of you guys know where Mesa Verde is or you can imagine the southwest corner. But the problem with Colorado is that – this isn’t the problem. The thing that makes Colorado great is all these mountain passes. And so to get from Denver to southwestern Colorado is really not a straight forward trip. You have to go over a couple of mountain passes, and so it just takes a little while to get here. Anyway, we’re going skiing on Tuesday, and it’s going to be the only time this entire year that I go skiing. I’m not a good skier at all. In general, I just don’t love going fast. 

Joy: I’m the same way. Oddly enough, growing up in Arizona we skied every spring break in Utah. So I grew up skiing, love skiing. I would go super fast as a kid, but now if I was to go skiing, I haven’t been in a while, I would be super conservative and scared to go fast.

Claire: Even as a kid, when I would go in high school, I would go up almost every single weekend. And you’d think I would be good at skiing have skied – I took ski lessons every Saturday from when I was three years old until I was 15.

Joy: Wow.

Claire: You would think I’d be amazing at skiing, but I’m not.

Joy: And by the way, I love the kids ski school where they hold onto the little thing that holds them up. It’s so cute, yes.

Claire: Yeah, the little carrot lift.

Joy: Yes.

Claire: Which in normal adult, it’s called a tow rope. But when you’re in ski school, you call it the carrot lift.

Joy: Oh yeah.

Claire: You know, because it’s on the bunny hill and it’s got a carrot. But yeah, for me it was always and has always been a social activity. Because when you grow up in Boulder, all my friends skied. I had one friend whose parents had a condo in Winter Park, so we would go to the condo. There was the group of guys – in high school it was mostly guys – who were going and jumping off cliffs and stuff. And I was always like, “You know, I’m just going to stay on this cute little blue run, and I’m going to go and eat some pizza and maybe come back out, maybe not.” And I maintain that mindset to this day.

Joy: Yes.

Claire: Where I’m like, you know, I enjoy being outdoors with my friends. And that is why I like to ski. I don’t really care about skiing for the sake of skiing. I don’t know if you guys can hear Evie screaming in the background.

Joy: Oh, I just heard that. I thought it was my dog. 

Claire: Nope. Small child. So anyway, but nonetheless, even though I’m not that good at skiing, I really enjoy going and being outside in the winter and cruising around. It’s always been such a big part of my life that I really miss it when I don’t get to do it. 

Joy: Yeah.

Claire: So this year has been weird. This is one of the only years of my entire life from toddler years that I haven’t had a ski pass.

Joy: That’s crazy.

Claire: This is maybe the second or third time only in my life that I haven’t had a ski pass, so it will be really fun to go skiing. On Tuesday, we’re going to Purgatory. The name of the resort is Purgatory. It’s the more local… the ski areas in this part of the state are a lot more – Purgatory isn’t – but they have a lot more advanced ski areas in this part of the state because the mountains are a lot more steep and they get a lot more snow. But it’s so much harder to get to that this is much less of a tourist destination than the half a dozen or so ski hills that are within a 3-hour drive of the Denver airport.

Joy: Exactly, yeah. 

Claire: So anyway.

Joy: I always think ho w- I don’t know if it’s a taking for granted thing because I know people come here for the skiing, and I always feel so bad that I’m like I wish I skied more. But there’s the thing I always think about is how bad traffic is. Totally you’d have to take days off and go during a weekday, which is fine and I could do that. I guess it’s just that I’m not motivated enough to do it. But I remember when I was in my 20’s, I dated this guy that worked at Vail, so we would go skiing there all the time. He would take me on these crazy runs. And a few times I went on a black diamond where I though I was going to die. I was like, “What am I doing?” Because it wasn’t like I was a pro skier. I know how to ski pretty well, but it was very – the things you do for love, you know. The things you do for love.

Claire: For real. And my equation to the things you do for love is reversed because Brandon the thing he does for love is ski slowly with me. 

Joy: [laughing] It’s so nice. So what made you guys decide to take a trip?

Claire: We just needed to get out of dodge. I didn’t want to deal with the –

Joy: I mean, you don’t have to explain that part, but was there something where all of the sudden out of the blue you guys were like, oh my gosh, we need to go somewhere.

Claire: No, we’ve had this trip planned for a couple of months actually. We put it on the books probably back in late December, early January. And we were just like, we’re going to book this on VRBO. They have a pretty good COVID cancellation policy. And we’re just going to feel it out and see how it feels as we get closer. And I had done that with a trip to California that I was going to take in December, and the closer I got the more I was like this isn’t responsible or safe for me to go to California. It would have been the second week of December. I was like, okay, I’ve already had the experience of booking a trip a couple months out and getting to that point and being like, nope, this isn’t safe. But this one is very much the opposite. Now that vaccines have begun rolling out, the cases in Colorado have gone down dramatically.

Joy: Dramatically, yeah.

Claire: And the state is just very, very slowly – and it’s county by country for the most part, but most of the really intense tight regulations have started to ease off a little bit. And it’s interesting, you were talking about being in Westcliff where it’s a lot more rural and everything that goes along with that in terms of the politics of the area. Durango is also pretty rural, although it’s also known for being this big outdoorsman town. There’s this organic coop we went to yesterday. There’s a college here. It’s interesting because it’s surrounded by all of these very rural, conservative, small-ish towns, but then Durango itself is a little bit more liberal, although still very much has its roots in, I believe, mining. I should look that up, why Durango was formed. But people have yard signs all over town that say like, “Support public health. Wear your mask.” Instead of the Biden yard sign, you have a “wear your mask” yard sign. It’s just so interesting, too, like we were talking about last week, it’s so different from town to town and we really take for granted the bubble we live in. Everyone’s like, “Yeah, of course I wear my mask. What’s the big deal?” And so being here and going out, it’s a big deal. People have had to literally put their flag in the sand and say, “No, I’m wearing a mask.” But I’m excited to be down here. We love this part of the state. If it weren’t so isolated, I think we would live here one day. Okay, well, in case you were wondering, Durango was founded because the Denver and Rio Grande Railway. However, I’m not really clear exactly what the point of it. Was it a mining town? Santa Monica Mining District. Also a ton of indigenous history here. Mesa Verde is really close by, which if you guys aren’t familiar with that, it’s this really cool, ancient cave dwelling. It’s actually not that ancient. It was inhabited until around 1200, and it was inhabited for thousands of years in these pueblo cave dwellings, very cool.

Joy: Anyone have questions about Colorado, just let us know. We’re not historians, but we can tell you some things about it.

Claire: I can Google it and say it out loud instead of you Googling it and reading it.

Joy: Right, we can do that for you, we sure can do that for you.

Claire: We are here for you.

Joy: I want to go to Durango, and I also want to go to Telluride.

Claire: Have you not been to Telluride?

Joy: No.

Claire: [gasps] We have to do a trip to Telluride. Oh my gosh, that’s going to be our next trip.

Joy: I just think of the Tim McGraw song, “Telluride.”

Claire: I’m unfamiliar with that song, but Telluride –

Joy: [gasps] It’s a great song, it’s a great song.

Claire: I can’t believe Scott’s never gone to Telluride with you before. It’s so cute.

Joy: Oh, I think he’s been there, but not with me.

Claire: I love it because it’s very bougie western. 

Joy: How do you compare it to Vail?

Claire: It’s more Wild West than Vail.

Joy: I was going to say, more western Wild West than Vail, which is bougie.

Claire: By far.

Joy: Boug. Vail’s boug.

Claire: Okay. So Brandon and I always talk about this. Vail is like the town where you go that’s full of people who want you to know how much money they have. Aspen is where you go that’s full of people who have so much money that they don’t care whether or not you know it.

Joy: Yeah, exactly. Aspen’s like a whole different chapter of rich.

Claire: Yes, Vail is bougie, but it’s actually more – and wealthy for sure – but it’s show off wealthy.

Joy: Showy wealthy versus Aspen’s like they have so much money that they’re like we’re here –

Claire: They’re like I’m wearing sweatpants to go skiing and I don’t even care.

Joy: And they’re like, “We’re here,” period. That’s really all you need to know is if you live in Aspen, that’s all you need to know.

Claire: Yes. Those people don’t live there. They own their 15-million-dollar ski chalet second home.

Joy: Right, I always think of Goldie Hawn and those people.

Claire: Yes, like Tom Cruise has a house in Aspen.

Joy: All of them. Mariah Carey.

Claire: The A-listers. Yes, literally.

Joy: Mariah Carey with her outfits that are all, you know, the ski suits that only she can wear. 

Claire: Where it’s like white spandex with a big, fur coat.

Joy: Yes, big fluffy fur. I love it. I want that life. I really do.

Claire: I know, it’s so great. But that’s the thing is even the fluffy furs are usually over the top for Aspen. But Telluride is a lot more horse ranch kind of style. Not to say that it’s full of horse ranches but it’s more of that vibe. But it’s beautiful, and there’s a gondola that you can take for free out of the town center to the top of the mountain and back down, and it’s just so gorgeous and lovely. And they have, if you go in the summer, there’s this beautiful waterfall you can hike to and they have this amazing blue grass festival. They have the Telluride Film Festival. 

Joy: Yeah, let’s take a Joy and Claire trip there.

Claire: If Visit Telluride is looking for a spokesperson. As you can see, I’m well qualified.

Joy: Look no further. 

Claire: There’s also this great thing in Telluride called the Telluride Free Box. I don’t know if they’re still doing it in COVID, but it’s exactly what it sounds like. Imagine a tiny free library, except full of anything you can think of. Like it’s on the side of this building, and it’s just massive bookshelf basically filled with piles of random – like, okay, you guys know our friend Jess. Jess lives in this part, and in her neighborhood, they have an alleyway. They call it the “magic alley.” If you put things out in the alleyway, within an hour they’re gone. Not because the trash came and picked them up, but because someone came and took them away.

Joy: The magic alley.

Claire: So this is the free box. If you want to get rid of something, you just go put it next to the free box and someone will come get it. It’s nice stuff a lot of the time too. Some of it is trash, but it’s hilarious. Back in my rafting days, I got an ammo can, which is like a water tight metal box that you use. They used to fill it with ammo, and that’s why it had to be water tight, but it’s also used for rafting now. You can put your supplies in there. Very fun. Highly recommend Telluride.

Joy: Yeah, but I’d also love to hear the crazy things people gave away or got for free from like a magic alley. I always use this app called Let Go whenever I just want to give something away and I don’t want to take it anywhere. I just want someone to come pick it up.

Claire: I just want to get rid of this.

Joy: Yeah. I always use Let Go, and I swear to you, I haven’t had a lot of luck selling things on there because it’s really saturated, but any time you just need to give something away for free it’s gone within five minutes and it’s the best. I’ve given away huge pieces of furniture where I’m like, I’m not going to sell this, someone please take it away. It’s the best. Okay, I want to read an email really quick. But I also want to talk about bougie things. So let me talk about bougie things first because I watched the Billie Eilish documentary this weekend. It’s on Apple TV. It’s amazing. I have to be careful with watching things like this because I fall very quickly into the comparison trap and I just get very depressed. It’s kind of the same thing with the Kardashians. Any type of reality show where they’re so darn rich, I can’t separate my life from their life, and I’m like what am I even doing with my life. And not to mention I was in a really bad mood on Friday anyway. I was like, “Why am I doing this? What am I doing with my life?” She got famous and loaded when she was 14-15. She’s 19 now. It’s just insane how successful her and her brother were. But it’s an amazing documentary, it’s really well done. Her family is so cute. Her mom is adorable. Her dad is the cutest dad in the world. I love their family. They’re really, really good people, but I was just in this very pity party. It got me really bummed out because I’m like, “What am I even doing? I’m 43, what am I even doing with my life?” And then I just needed to go do something else. It’s great. It’s great if that stuff doesn’t affect you, but I tend to get super comparison trap when I watch those things.

Claire: That’s how I felt when I was watching the Mars rover landing that everyone was like, “Oh my gosh, we did it,” and I was like, “Oh, I just found an email that had a typo in the subject line” that went to 25,000 people. Cool, I’m so glad you were able to send a rover into space and after nine months of flying through space it landed exactly where you wanted it to and began taking pictures of Mars. I just put two r’s in the word “journal.”

Joy: Yeah, it’s kind of like the Tom Brady thing where he’s been in, whatever, ten Superbowls, and I was playing with Legos last weekend. So you know, we just need to be satisfied with our lives somehow. But that is way too in our face comparison trap material if we want it.

Claire: It’s so funny to me that you – not funny to me. The irony of you being so affected by celebrity reality is that you also love celebrity culture so much.

Joy: I also love celebrity culture. It’s almost like picking at a scab type of thing where I’m just like, I love it so much but it pains me sometimes because I just get so like – but here’s the other thing. I also am projecting this perfect life that they don’t have. Nobody has a perfect life. But because I was also in a really bad mood on Friday, I just needed to project some crap that wasn’t real where I’m like, “They live this perfect life, and she gets to travel the world.” Everyone’s got their crap.

Claire: I can’t imagine being that famous at 15.

Joy: At that young, right.

Claire: Imagine, even at 19. We can barely handle it when someone gives us a negative review on iTunes.

Joy: Oh my gosh, yeah.

Claire: And we’re grown ass women.

Joy: Exactly, and I think that’s very prevalent in this documentary of how hard she is on herself. She’s so hard on herself where I’m like, oh poor thing. There were shows where she wouldn’t go out because she was like, “It’s not perfect” or “This is going to look dumb” or “People are going to make fun of me.” Or she always questions, “Why do people like me?” It’s really interesting because that self-worth thing where you can see her, not immaturity, but she’s young so kind of growing that confidence is not just grown overnight just because you become famous. But it’s a good documentary, check it out. I was just in a really bad mood. And my bad mood was mostly work related because I was just like, whatever, I had a bad day. Okay, let’s move on to an email because someone wrote us an email. Ryan. And the subject line is, “Not Political Enough Friendly Email.” Thank you because we can’t handle negative things.

Claire: Unlike Billie Eilish at age 15. Adults. Zero negative feedback.

Joy: God, we can’t take it, we just can’t. “Hi Joy and Claire, love the podcast. Personally I don’t think you both talk about politics enough. Is it political to say, ‘Don’t drink and drive. You might kill someone.’ But, ‘Wear a mask so you don’t kill someone,” that’s political? Anyways, here’s my dilemma, not sure if you have any thoughts. I live in California. Figure in the next six months vaccines are likely. I would like to get back to a CrossFit style gym. I say CrossFit style because I’m kind of burned out on the brand, but that is not a total deal breaker. A lot of gyms have closed their doors permanently, and many of the gyms that are left have been cheating the whole time. I don’t really want” – and I’m assuming cheating by letting people in, whatever – “I don’t really want to give my money to a business that has been spreading the virus. Half a million dead people in a year is insane. I’m not really sure how to find a gym once things start to get back to normal. Many of my CrossFit friends don’t really believe in germs or science or maybe that chalk kills the virus.” What, mmkay. “I really hope as things get back to normal, a lot of garage gyms open and we kind of start over. I think that’s my best hope. Any thoughts or ideas on how to find a new gym?” Um, first of all, CrossFit friends who don’t believe in science or germs, you need to get rid of those friends.

Claire: Git.

Joy: Git.

Claire: It’s been a while since we pulled out the, “Git.”

Joy: That came from an episode of Girls Gone WOD by the way. When we were talking with Natalia and Lisa about eating disorders.

Claire: In the early days.

Joy: Early days, yeah.

Claire: I think just like any gym, this is my number one piece of advice for any time you’re trying to find a new CrossFit gym, and it’s look at the pictures on their social media. Go look at the blog on their site. If they have been asking people to wear a mask and people have actually been compliant and they have been taking it seriously, then they’ll most likely have photos of that in their social media and most likely have at least one blog post about it that says, “Hey, this is important. Don’t forget.” As a reminder. The gym I go to, CrossFit Roots, recently made a post, and they haven’t been posting. They don’t go every single day posting, “Don’t forget, wear your masks.” People just do it and they’re good about it. And you’ll be in class and yeah, if you’re gasping for air somebody might pull down their mask for two breaths and then pull it back up, which is you know.

Joy: That’s pretty normal.

Claire: But if somebody has their mask pulled down for an entire round, the coach is going to go up to them and say, “Put your mask back on. If you need to take a break, the doors are always open. You’re welcome to walk outside and pull your mask down and breath our for 30 seconds” or whatever. They posted a post recently on Instagram that was a picture of somebody doing a front squat or something in a mask, and it was like, “Hey, thank you guys so much for wearing masks indoors and not complaining. We’re almost there.” Kind of like, none of us have enjoyed this and you don’t have to pretend it’s been a fun carnival ride to wear your mask indoors. But at the same time, we’ve done what we needed to do to keep each other safe, to keep the business open. And in Colorado, that’s been the other big thing is if you allow people into your business without wearing masks, you as the business are the one that’s penalized, not the person wearing the mask. So the onus is on you as the business to enforce it. So it’s like, hey, thank you for letting us maintain our business throughout this safely. And I’ve seen that from other gyms as well who have been doing a good job with that. So I would really just start there. And then the other thing that I would do is when you are reaching out, I would say, “Hey, I have a few questions. Tell me about your thought processes around scaling. Tell me about you thought processes around body composition.” Maybe kind of a health at every size. And then, “Tell me about how you kept your members safe in 2020.” And maybe you want to write that in an email, or maybe you ask it to them the first day that you go to do a drop in. But those are the three questions that I would ask of any CrossFit gym, and I think how they answer that – if you’re like, “Tell me how you kept your members safe in 2020,” and they’re like, “Oh, you know, we kind of left it up to each individual to make their decision,” that’s code for we didn’t see a reason to uphold that. And especially California, I think –

Joy: I mean, in California –

Claire: In California – a couple of weeks ago we talked about how in every state and every county the rules have been different. In some gyms, you aren’t required to have people wearing masks. Or maybe it’s more about a capacity thing or working out outdoors thing, but in California it’s been really strict. The lines are pretty clear there about were you taking – I think it just has to go along with what you believe to be true, and I think in California more than anywhere else we’ve heard a lot of people being like, “This was taken over the top. Businesses should have been allowed to open. Every other state was doing it,” blah blah blah. But what felt reasonable to you, what would have felt reasonable to you, and uphold that gym to that standard. 

Joy: I also like to call out The OUT Foundation and OUT Athletics because a lot of times when they are hosting events, I think that is also a sign that the gym is inclusive. And not to say that’s the only thing, but go on The OUT Foundation or OUT Athletics and see if that gym has hosted an event or if they’re affiliated with them in any way because I feel like that is also a sign of being an inclusive space, which we really need to pay attention to that too. Quick, I have another email.

Claire: Oh you do?

Joy: Because I asked about Texas, and EJ wrote in. Our listener EJ says, “Hi Joy and Claire. On your most recent episode, you asked about folks in Texas. I thought I’d reach out and share my experience. I currently live in Houston, Texas and was very lucky to have power throughout the storm. I lost water about two days when the city shut off water due to the many main breaks that were occurring. All things considered, I was extremely lucky. I work through AmeriCorps at the non-profit called SBT. We are in the field of disaster recovery construction. Here in Houston we are still helping people recover from Hurricane Harvey. Many of our previous clients experienced burst pipes that caused a lot of damage. We’ve been going back to their houses to remove wet drywall and insulation, flooring that was damaged, cabinets and plumbing that burst. Because so many other people are experiencing plumbing issues, finding supplies and materials to help fix pipes is really hard. I forwarded the newsletter my company sent out recently. It deals the work we’ve been doing in response to winter storm Uri and includes ways people can donate to our efforts if they like. Cheers, EJ.” So I’m going to post these resources on our show notes here, if you want to check those out. So look for the show notes in this episode post, and thank you for sending that EJ.

Claire: Hi, EJ.

Joy: Hi, EJ. 

Claire: Okay, one other quick thing that I wanted, and I’m putting you on the spot here. Are we going to go to the CrossFit Games this year?

Joy: Woah.

Claire: I know. Kelly – hi, Kelly – was sending me messages about it. And she was like, “Do you think you guys are going to go? I may or may not have a friend who’s waiting to decide whether to go until she finds out if you’re going to go.”

Joy: Oh wow.

Claire: Tickets are on sale.

Joy: When are they? Is it summer again?

Claire: Yeah, it’s in August. It’s outdoors in August. It would be ideal to do that.

Joy: I would love to go. I think I’d love to go.

Claire: I’d love to go.

Joy: I mean, I’d go anywhere right now. I’m just dying to go somewhere. I want to go to Arizona. I want to go to Hawaii. Anything that feels like a normalcy thing, sign me up. Sign me up.

Claire: We’re going to need to take – not just need to, but want to take every opportunity possible to go to Madison and see Brandon’s family this year. Because we haven’t seen Evie since –

Joy: They haven’t?

Claire: No. She was able to walk.

Joy: Oh, I was going to say.

Claire: Not ever. Brandon’s mom has only seen her twice in her life. 

Joy: Oh my gosh, they’re dying.

Claire: The last time they saw her was over a year ago. 

Joy: Oh they’re dying.

Claire: We went to Wisconsin in January of 2020. I know. So we need to go to Madison like ten times this year. As soon as Brandon’s family is all vaccinated. So you heard it first guys. We are going to try to make to the CrossFit Games.

Joy: We are going to try to make the CrossFit Games work. Yes, please, and thank you.

Claire: We’re going to go to Gray’s one hundred times. 

Joy: [sigh] That was a really creepy sound. [laughing] That was a little sexual, I apologize. On the iPhone it has this feature now where you see memories of photos, like you can customize your – and I see Gray’s, Madison, our trip to Iceland, our trip to LA. Which by the way, we hit the anniversary of a year last week and I was like, I’m just going to not talk today because that was a moment. But if you want to go to the CrossFit Games this year and it’s safe for you and safe for your family, I think that we want to try and make that happen. And maybe we should try to talk to the new CEO guy. He’s in Boulder.

Claire: He’s in Boulder. 

Joy: Let’s give it a try and just be like, “What’s going on? We’re a little salty in some areas. Can you talk to us about that?”

Claire: Listen, if you want to get people back on board, ours is the podcast to go to. 

Joy: For sure. And maybe we’ll even release it on the Girls Gone WOD feed too, so anybody who didn’t jump ship.

Claire: We are really putting the cart before the horse here on this idea. You know, I’m sure we can make that happen. I’m not sure, but I’d like to think we could.

Joy: I’d like to think we could.

Claire: Okay guys, this week we asked you for some random questions. I love all these random questions that you have because sometimes you ask them, and I’m like, oh have we never talked about that. For example, “How did you meet your husbands?”

Joy: Oh okay. I’ll go first. I knew Scott for years. Scott and I kind of ran in the same crowd, if you will. We had a very similar group of friends that kind of overlapped, so whenever I was at parties he’d be at parties. So I would always see him. His friend was a DDA, so I always saw his best friend at work. And he’s kind of be like, “You should go out with Scott.” Everyone would always be like, “You should go out with Scott.” And at the time, I was always dating – I mean, I was in the prime of my dating years where I was just dating, dating, dating, and he was dating people. So whenever we saw each other at parties, we’d just be like, ‘Oh hey.” Wasn’t super, I don’ know, wasn’t very apparent that either of us were interested at the time. So it was like, okay, well fine, if he wants to go out with me he should call me. So finally we were both at this, it was probably two years later, and I remember my best friend went with me to this engagement party for our mutual friends, and Scott was there. I remember telling my friend Melanie, “If Scott’s there, I think I’m going to talk to this guy.” And it was just out of the blue thinking, I’ve been through so many bad dates and bad people, I should try to date this guy because everyone’s been saying it for years we should date, blah blah blah. So finally we go to this engagement party, and he and I started talking. The moment that I remember thinking, “He’s such a good guy,” and this goes to the gift giving is he gave the engagement couple – first of all, nobody brought an engagement gift to these people. It was just a party. The groom is from Venezuela, so he brought this Venezuelan artist, a record of Venezuelan music, to Miguel as a present for their engagement party.

Claire: That’s just Scott.

Joy: And I remember thinking, “What a thoughtful guy. Who does that?” And so we started talking. He was going to Arizona for work that week, so he was talking about Arizona. And he was like, “I want to know where to go eat,” blah blah blah. Just trying to strike up a conversation. So I gave him my number and I was like, “Yeah call me.” So we just started talking, went on a date. Our first date was, and I will never forget it because the next day I went to see my nephew who had just been born, it was Memorial Day weekend of 2006 was the weekend that we had our first day. We went to Body Worlds, if anybody remembers. Body Worlds?

Claire: That would be a weird first date.

Joy: Oh, it was so weird. He called me and he goes, “I know this is really weird, but would you want to go to Body World?” Because it’s not an exhibit that comes through town very often.

Claire: So I went to Body Worlds in 2006 as a field trip with my high school anatomy class.

Joy: Oh Lord, yeah, yeah.

Claire: Because the weekend that you and Scott had your first date was the weekend that I graduated from high school. 

Joy: Yep, and that’s the age gap right there. It’s so good. So yeah, we went to Body Worlds, and then we went to get a drink, and then we went to dinner a lot later because he’s like, “Let’s just go get a drink after Body Worlds. Let’s not eat right away because I don’t know if we’re all going to feel like eating after that.” And so, yeah, it was a really nice long date.

Claire: Because the whole room smells like formaldehyde. 

Joy: Yes. He’s like, “Let’s go get some drinks before we decide if we want to go have dinner.” Yeah, and then the next day I flew to South Carolina where my brother was living at the time. My mom picked me up, and I was like, “Oh my gosh, I’m going to marry this guy.” She was like, “What?” Because at the time I was the eternal single girl. My family was like, “Yeah, we’re giving up on Joy. She’s never going to get married.” I’m not kidding. So my sister-in-law and my mom were like, “You’ve got to be kidding me.” So that’s how we met, and then we just kept dating each other and we were like, we just want to keep hanging out, and we eventually got engaged in Hawaii.

Claire: And here you are still hanging out.

Joy: And here we are hanging out still liking each other.

Claire: So that, then, the follow up question, which is, “When did you know that you were in love with your partner?’

Joy: Let’s see. So I kind of went back and forth because I was very young and scared. I was very anti-relationships. Not that I didn’t want to get into a relationship, but I was weird. I was very scared and hesitant and skeptical of relationships, of really serious relationships. So I remember Scott and I took a trip to Arizona three months after we started dating, and I was like, “I don’t know if I can go. This is too serious to me.” To take a trip with him, that was freaking me out. But I think after that trip, seeing how, not that I needed a caretaker, but how he takes care of things and was just so kind to me and so thoughtful and kind of let me be me instead of trying to change me. Like if I was freaking out about the trip, he was like, “Do you want to go or not?” He just didn’t get too crazy about it. 

Claire: He didn’t get caught up in –

Joy: No, he didn’t get caught up in that. And I think that’s when I was like – I wasn’t sure if I was super in love. I was just more of, I want to keep hanging –

Claire: Not like a clap of thunder.

Joy: No, no, no. More of I just really want to be with him. I always want to be with him. I don’t want to not be with him was kind of how I was –

Claire: Okay, follow up question about Scott that just came in.

Joy: Oh great.

Claire: And then I’ll tell my story. What does Scott do for a living, and how’s he dealing with the pandemic since he used to travel so much?

Joy: Yeah. This is a great question. Scott would be so honored to know people are interested in him.

Claire: Which by the way, Scott is going to be starting his own podcast potentially. I don’t want to release any news too early, but he’s been talking about wanting to start his own podcast. Send us in some encouragement for Scott.

Joy: Yeah, please send in encouragement. He’s so cute, and I know it was very vulnerable of him to tell me, the podcast queen for the past eight years. He just casually let it out last week. He was like, “Yeah, Me, Collin, and Wakeen” – these are his BFF’s – “are going to start a podcast and it’s going to be about” – I’ll save the details for later. But I’m like, “That’s great,” and I was super encouraging because I know that was a big deal for him to tell me. But I’m like, “I’ll edit it for you if you want me to.” Yeah, super cute. And then he started talking about playing music, and I’m like, “You can’t play music on a podcast,” and he’s like, “I looked it up. You can play 20 seconds of music.” I’m like, Sandy. Where is Sandy? Why can’t we play – I’m like Sandy.

Claire: Sandy said no.

Joy: No. I’m going to let him deal with his own legal issues.

Claire: He can’t have that, Sandy.

Joy: You need to talk to him, Sandy, about that. What does Scott do for a living? He works for a company, and he’s worked for this company since I’ve been dating him, so he’s been with them for quite some time. It’s a company called Black Baud, and it is a non-profit fundraising. So it’s a public company, but they do fundraising software and fundraising consultation for non-profits, higher education, so basically anyone that does fundraising type of businesses. When I was dating him, he was working with a lot of non-profits and he would travel there, designing a lot of their software that they would need to make money. And now he’s working with higher education. He works with a lot of really big schools to help with their donors and alumni donations. He loves it. He’s really good at it. It takes a lot of being really good with people and explaining things, and he’s just really good at his job. So he works for them. He’s been doing it for a long time. And he’s having a really hard time with the pandemic right now. I’d say a few weeks ago, he and I kind of sat down and he’s like, “I’m just really struggling. I don’t leave the house” because he works from home. And he’s like “I just need” – I can tell when I come home from work, he’s like, “I need to go somewhere.” He’s like, “Do you need anything done. I just need to go somewhere. I need to do something. I don’t care if it’s going to get the car washed, go to Target.” Like we were kind of joking last week about how couples with no kids are bored. That’s how he is. But it’s just in a way where he’s struggling because he, like many others, don’t know when they’re going to get the vaccine, and he just feels really strongly about not traveling and not going places without the vaccine. I think he’s just in a place where he wants this to be over, like everyone. But for Scott to actually say that is when I know it’s really bugging him.

Claire: And I think even with kids, even with not being bored, I still feel that way, that I just need to get out of the house. I’ve been really working on, I think I talked about this last week or two weeks ago, that I’ve been getting to the gym almost every day, which is a huge departure from October, November, December when I didn’t work out at all. The just act of getting out of the house has made an unbelievable impact on my mental health, beyond what I could have imagined. Thinking about how I was feeling in November and December and even January versus how I’m feeling now is night and day, and the only change I’ve made is that I get out of the house every day and go to the gym. And again, for me, I feel safe there. Everyone’s wearing masks.

Joy: Right, everyone’s taking precautions

Claire: It doesn’t add stress for me to be there, which is a huge part of it. But I’m around other people. I’m seeing a lot of the same people every day. Just that small act of being around a group of people every day has made a huge difference. And it also has made me think a lot about the different reasons throughout the last – because I’m coming up on nine years of CrossFit this month.

Joy: Wow.

Claire: I know. And it’s made me think about all the different reasons that I’ve kept coming back to CrossFit, and really at the end of the day it’s always been about the people. On Friday, I worked out every day that week, and I was like, “Oh, I should take a rest day.” But I was like, “No, I want to go.” And I realized five years ago or eight years ago, I would have been like, “No, I want to go. I’ve got to make my gains.” And now I’m like, “No, I want to go. I have to get out of the house.”

Joy: I have to get out of the house, right.

Claire: So I went, and I walked up to the coach and I was like – it was kettlebell swings – I was like, “I’m not going to do Russian kettlebell swings. I’m not going to go overhead. I’m going to go lighter on this, and I’m going to go slower on that.” I’m not here to make gains. I’m not here to PR.

Joy: Or do the RX workout. You just need to move, and you need to be around people.

Claire: I just need to get out of the house. I just need a good excuse to get out of the house for something structured, and that is my only goal. So when I get there, it’s like, I’m not going to do a bunch of heavy weights. I’m exhausted and my body is tired, but that’s not the point. I think it’s just so interesting to really recognize that evolution in how I’ve been thinking about CrossFit, and also really truly being at a point where I don’t care what my time is or what my weights are. I really don’t. Because the goal for me is truly just to be there. And once I’m there, I’ve accomplished what I’ve set out to do. And it’s not even a goal, because it’s not like I’m striving, “I have to do five days a week” or whatever. I’m doing this just for the sake of doing it.

Joy: Exactly. Scott’s been doing the same thing. That does help him. He goes to Orange Theory and he works out. Getting out of the house once a day is really important for him. Like last night he spent a good chunk of time at his best friend’s house. That’s someone he feels comfortable going to see. It’s like the only person he goes to see. But those are things, just getting out of the house especially if you work from home, is so huge. So huge. And being around people, not going to the grocery store. Being around people.

Claire: No, being around people you know. Okay, so I’ll talk about Brandon. So Brandon and I met the summer after college. It was 2010. I was 22, and we were both living in Moab. I was working for a rafting company, a non-profit rafting company that did trips for folks with disabilities. Which by the way, rafting is such a cool, accessible outdoor sport because on a raft you can pack anything that you can pack in a car basically. You have a cooler, so you can keep medication refrigerated. You can bring a generator if you need something really badly to be – if you need a CPAP or something. You can put your wheelchair on the back. I have taken people who are quadriplegic down the river. It’s so cool. Really accessible in a true kind of wilderness area way that is usually not accessible to people with disabilities, particularly people with physical disabilities. The non-profit I worked for, it was called Splore. And they have since been adopted… absorbed…

Joy: Acquired.

Claire: Acquired, thank you. Absorbed, that’s like an amoeba. Acquired, I guess, by the National Center for Disabled Sports. Is that what it’s called, out of Salt Lake City? Anyway, very cool. Highly recommend if you’re looking for a cool place to donate, they’re very fun. The point of this story is that I had a friend coming to visit me in Moab, and Brandon worked at the one shop in town where you as just a random lay person could rent a raft. So she and I went there and rented a ducky, which is an inflatable kayak, and he’s the guy who helped us, who brought the ducky out to the car. I thought he was really cute, and he had a NOLS t-shirt on. Which NOLS is the National Outdoor Leadership School. If you guys are unfamiliar, it’s very similar to Outward Bound. I had done a NOLS course the previous summer where I spent a month in the Yukon doing canoeing and backpacking. And he had done a NOLS course a few years prior doing some glacier travel in Alaska. So we kind of struck up a conversation about NOLS, and I just thought he was really cute. A couple days later was driving down Main Street – Moab just has one main street – driving down Main Street, and I saw him standing out in the parking lot. I was driving with my two other girlfriends who I worked with, and I was like, “Oh, that’s the guy. That’s the cute guy.” They were like, “Do you want to go say hi to him?” We were on our way to lunch or something, and I was like, “We’ll go back after lunch.” We went back, and he wasn’t there. So I went inside, and I was like, well maybe he’s inside. So I went inside and the lady at the counter was like, “Can I help you?” I was like – 

Joy: Who’s the cute guy?

Claire: “Is he coming back?” And she’s like, “Yeah, he just went for lunch.” I was like, okay. So I came back after noon. And little did I know that she had told him, “Some girl was looking for you.” So when I got there, he totally knew what I was doing. He is by far not the person who would go out of his way to talk to a stranger, versus I clearly am. So as I was walking up to him, I was like I don’t have a good cover story for this. So I turned to him and I was like, “Hey, I work for the non-profit in town, and we’re looking to get a ducky” – ducky’s the name of the inflatable kayak – “a ducky donated for this fundraiser that we’re doing. How much do these cost?” And he was like, “I don’t know. I can look into it.” I was like, “No, it’s fine. Anyway, my friend’s having this party tonight if you want to go. Can I get” –

Joy: But were your friends really having a party?

Claire: Oh yes, my friends were actually throwing a party.

Joy: I was like, did you make up a party.

Claire: No. So they were actually having a party. He didn’t end up coming that night, but we ended up just texting. He was leaving for a climbing trip the next day and couldn’t come. But we just ended up hanging out. This was in June or July, or right after July 4th maybe. He and I hung out a couple times, and then we’re kind of dating-ish, and I moved to Vermont at the end of the summer to do an internship with Alpinist magazine. Guys, I was so outdoorsy.

Joy: That sounds great.

Claire: For two years, I was so outdoorsy. It’s this tiny town in Vermont I lived in. If anyone’s like, “Which town?” I lived in Johnson, Vermont, and I worked in Jeffersonville. Tiny town. I didn’t like it there. So Brandon and I kind of did this like, well, we weren’t really fully dating, so were we really broken up. So we really just kept talking so much, and I went, and he then was working as ski patrol at Copper in Colorado. So I went back over Halloween weekend and visited him and that was when we were like, we want to try to make something work. Then I moved to Copper, got a job as a liftie. Also wouldn’t recommend that. 

Joy: You’ve said that so many times. “I didn’t like that job.” 

Claire: It was the worst. I guess looking back things moved pretty fast. And I was just so young. I was 22.

Joy: Yes, so young.

Claire: It’s crazy. Okay. I feel like we’ve been talking about our husbands this entire episode.

Joy: I know, this is the husband episode.

Claire: This is the husband episode. So let’s answer a few more of these cute questions. 

Joy: Okay. And we will answer the rest of them next time. 

Claire: “Have you heard of hot chocolate bombs? And if yes, have you tried them?”

Joy: No, I have not. What are they?

Claire: I have heard of them, but I haven’t tried them but I really want to. I sent this to you. I sent a TikTok about this to you in December. It’s like a chocolate ball that when it melts in your hot milk, it’s full of hot chocolate batter and marshmallows.

Joy: Okay, so it’s almost like a bath bomb but for hot chocolate.

Claire: Exactly, yes. I haven’t tried it, but I really want to. “How do you know when to break up with your therapist?”

Joy: I love this question. I’ll be really brief about it. There’s two things that I want to say. One, do you think it’s time to just stop therapy? Because therapy isn’t forever, and maybe it’s just time to take a break from therapy. Or do you feel like your therapist isn’t – you can also communicate to your therapist that you’re feeling stuck and just say, “I’m feeling like I’m hitting a point where I’m not really getting anything out of this” or “I feel like I’m spinning my wheels in therapy. What do you think?” And if the therapist responds with something that doesn’t sound right to you, whether it just be kind of neutral or they don’t probe you more about why you’re feeling stuck, then maybe you should probe them a little bit more. It’s fine to feel stuck in therapy, but I think sometimes clients feel like therapists are mind readers, and we’re not. So it’s okay to say, “Tell me what our treatment plan is. What do you think my goals are?” Kind of getting a little bit more clear with your therapist of, what’s the plan for this? But also maybe it’s time to take a break from therapy period, and it’s fine to take a break and work on things on your own for a while and take the skills you learned in therapy.

Claire: Okay. “When did you start feeling like a ‘adult’?” For me, it was when I had kids. I feel like that was a clear delineation of, okay, now I am in charge of another person. Any time I have the feeling of, I need to go get somebody, who’s in charge? I’m like, oh, it’s me. I’m in charge.

Joy: You’re in charge, yeah.

Claire: Any time I have that feeling, it gives me a slap in the face of reality check of, you’re the adult here. I’m like, oh crap.

Joy: I love the thing you said a while ago where you’re like – or maybe it was a meme – where at the end of the day, you’re just like, “Oh, who’s going to make dinner? Oh crap, I have to make dinner.”

Claire: Yeah, exactly. When you’re like, “Who’s making dinner?… Oh, it’s me.”

Joy: It’s me. I do the making of the dinners. Okay, my answer is really horrible/a little more funny. The first thing that popped in my head, I’m just going to be honest, is when I started taking medication for my anxiety and depression. That’s when I started feeling like an adult because I didn’t have to deal with my crazy emotions and I was able to focus on actually adulting in life and not freaking out over it. That’s okay too.

Claire: I think that’s great. “What is the best advice you’ve ever received from a mom or maternal figure?” Okay, you guys know mine. I’ve said it like a hundred times. You don’t have to say everything you think. And I think that as I’ve gotten older, I think at the time she meant it as, “Claire, you’re just narrating your stream of consciousness, and it’s driving me crazy.” But as I’ve gotten older, it’s become to me more like think before you speak. And also recently it’s come to mean, not everyone deserves to hear everything that you’re thinking about.

Joy: Yeah, kind of like the Brené Brown. People need to deserve to hear your story.

Claire: Exactly.

Joy: Mine would be, take one day at a time. My mom always told me that. I was a pretty anxious teenager and high schooler. I stressed out so much over tests and straight A’s and competing with my twin brother. And she would always just say, “Take one day at a time.” And I always think of that, the being present, but for a high schooler.

Claire: Okay, “What everyday thing are you most excited to get back to post COVID?”

Joy: Going out to drinks or dinner with my friends. I wouldn’t say that’s an everyday thing. Or just going to the store without having to worry about it. Because right now, I think a lot about the choices I make when I go places. Do I need to go here today? Do I need to make that trip? Because I think on an individual level, if we all think critically about can I consolidate my trips into one trip when I need to do this instead of taking five different trips to different stores. You know what I’m saying? I look forward to not having to plan so much or think about that because I just want to be, right now, very mindful of the trips that I’m taking, that I’m not just going willy nilly anywhere that I want. Or just going to a mall. You know what I really, really can’t wait for? I can’t wait to go to Sephora or Ulta and try products. Because you can’t try products right now. you just have to buy something and hope it works. But I miss having an armful of makeup samples on my whole arm. I just miss it. I miss that.

Claire: That is such a specific thing. For me, I really miss hanging out in coffee shops. Brandon and I would go – my mom would come over to watch the kids, and he and I would just go sit in a coffee shop. Or even by myself. I miss sitting in a coffee shop. And I also miss going to the office. Not everyone, I get that working from home has been great for some people, and it has not been great for me. Okay. Somebody asked, “How is Mom Sandy?” For those of you who don’t know, Mom Sandy lost her husband over the summer.

Joy: Last summer, yeah.

Claire: He had been doing cancer treatment for – it had been about, what? Two years?

Joy: I want to say two years, yeah.

Claire: And she just got a new puppy this week.

Joy: New puppy Clementine.

Claire: Clementine.

Joy: It’s a little bully.

Claire: A little bully. She has already a bully named Winston who is one-eyed Winston. He’s the best. That’s really the big update for Sandy right now. We need to have her on the podcast.

Joy: Yeah, we really do. An update from Mom Sandy. And her Instagram is @beabondgirl, if you want to follow her puppy journeys.

Claire: So cute.

Joy: So cute.

Claire: Okay, let’s do two more. I’ll do this one really quick because I always want to address this when it comes up. “Claire, you shared with us your history of postpartum depression before. What made you realize that you had it?” For me, it was really dramatic. I would say within a week of Miles being born, I knew instinctively that something was wrong, but I couldn’t articulate it and no one around me know – like I didn’t have any other new moms around me who would have been able to say, “Hey, yeah” –

Joy: Like, pinpoint it, yeah.

Claire: To pinpoint it. Because I think in those really early stages, it does take someone who’s recently been postpartum to help identify it. Otherwise, you’re just sitting there saying, “I feel weird. I don’t really know what I’m feeling. I don’t really feel like myself.” And everyone in your life is like, “Yeah, of course that’s how you feel. You just had a baby. It’s normal to not feel like yourself.” But for me it was more than that. I just didn’t know how to articulate it. So I didn’t actually realize this was postpartum depression until I became suicidal. So that was obviously horrible and scary and terrible. And the first day that I started having those types of thoughts, I was like, okay. If anyone listening has ever been in a period of your life where you’re having suicidal thoughts, in those moments you’re not really in your logical, normal brain. The thoughts you’re having obviously are not rational. So for me at least, once I sort of snapped out of that moment, it was like, “Oh, well that was really scary. I need to talk to someone.” And then the moment Brandon got home from work that day, I was like, “Hey, this is what happened, and I need to deal with it.” But if I’m being honest, then I think I had known for weeks before that that something was wrong, and I just didn’t know how to articulate it.

Joy: Right, right. And this was all very new to you too, so you were probably like, “Is this normal? Is this not normal?” You don’t know. You don’t have a frame of reference. The other thing that I’ve heard women talk about that I really encourage is, even if – because I know sometimes your doctor, if you’re going to see your OB or doing some type of checkup with your baby –

Claire: Your six-week postpartum checkup, you have to take the questionnaire.

Joy: You take the questionnaire, and let’s pretend that the questionnaire shows that you don’t have a problem. If you don’t have a high score, but you still feel something’s wrong, it’s okay to ask for help. Don’t rely on one little tool of an assessment because maybe you’re feeling okay that day.

Claire: And I would also say that the questions on that assessment are really hard because it’s like, “Have you been losing sleep lately? Have you been able to do everything you’ve always enjoyed doing?”

Joy: And you’re like, “No, I have a child. I have a newborn.”

Claire: No. Yeah, it’s like, “How’s your appetite?” I don’t know, I’m freaking breastfeeding. The questions on there –

Joy: Are for a normal human, not someone who just had a newborn. And so I think that that is not something to take with a, oh I guess I’m okay if this questionnaire says I’m okay. Please do not use that as your reference tool.

Claire: My questionnaire even said I wasn’t okay, and my doctor was like, “How are you feeling?” And I was like, “I don’t know, I guess I’m feeling okay.” “Okay.”

Joy: Right. No other follow-up questions. And here’s the thing, medical doctors, great. But they sometimes don’t always have the best training or tools to know what questions to ask for behavioral health. It’s just not in their training.

Claire: So I would say if you are a new mom or you have a new mom in your life and you’re worried about yourself or someone else in your life, the number one thing that I felt myself and that I have seen in other moms who have had both PPD and PPA – that’s anxiety – is this very deep-seeded feeling of I am not myself and I don’t see a path back to myself. That this isn’t right and it’s never going to get better. And that’s the feeling and the belief is that when you are a new mom, you have these moments of overwhelm, but having experienced postpartum depression with Miles and not with Evie, the difference was that with Evie I always could see the way out. I always could see that this is temporary. I know that this is a phase. I know that this is just the moment that I’m in. With Miles, I truly couldn’t see that. I truly had this belief that this is hard. This is not what I signed up for, and it’s never going to get any easier. It’s always going to be like this. 

Joy: Right, right.

Claire: And it was that sense of crushing finality that really is what –

Joy: Very much a doom, yeah.

Claire: And I’ve heard that a lot with people who would then go on to be diagnosed with postpartum depression or postpartum anxiety. This moment is terrible, and all my moments from now on are going to be like this. Not like, this moment is terrible and it’s going to pass. Okay, that was a little bit darker than I expected one of our last questions to be.

Joy: Yeah. “Upper lip hair removal suggestions. I feel 15 using some crazy mini scissors.” Yes, please don’t use mini scissors. If you haven’t yet found the Tinkle razors on Amazon, that’s what I use. Tinkle. I remember Paleo OMG was on our show and she talked about them, and I was like, “Tinkle?” They’re called Tinkle, and they’re great. They’re just little mini razors. It feels like when I used to do, what was it called? Microplane? Dermaplane? I’m looking at you like, “When did I get?” Yeah, when I did dermaplane, it kind of feels like that same razor where you just have to be careful because if you push too hard it leaves little razor marks on your face. But yes, Tinkle razors are the best.

Claire: So let’s do one more quick fun question, and then there are some other questions in here that I really want to answer next time. Like, “Does having kids completely change you?” I want to talk about that, but I’m not going to get to it this week.

Joy: Sure.

Claire: This one also is a great question for next time. “What’s a cult that you would join?”

Joy: Oh. I kind of wanted to make up a cult and be funny about it, but I was like, no, I actually should just think about an actual cult that I would join. 

Claire: And then another question for next time maybe, “How do you just move on from politics of 2020?”

Joy: How do you?

Claire: How do you? Let’s answer this one. “Favorite 3-4-day trips in April or May?”

Joy: Palm Springs. I don’t know why, but I’m dying to go to Palm Springs. Where did we go? Venice. Venice is great. Venice, California. Scottsdale, Arizona is really fun, somewhat warm. I don’t know, pick a beach. San Diego, San Diego’s another great one.

Claire: Yeah, Southern California, it’s so nice that time of year. I would say Southern California or I would love to go to Mexico. That would be great. Kind of a Spring Break Mexico trip. That would be lovely.

Joy: For sure.

Claire: Somebody asked me this on my Instagram yesterday, “What trip” – and I know the answer to this is Venice – “apart from Southern California, what do you look for in a dream vacation?”

Joy: Beaches. Sun. I don’t like to pack a lot, so I just want to be able to throw – that’s why I love going to Kona. Someone asked about where to go, Hawaii suggestions, so we can also address that in a future episode. But I just love vacations where you don’t have to stress about packing. I think a lot of us do. So if I can just pack bathing suits, shorts, t-shirts, flip flops, that is what I’m looking for. I don’t like to think about outfit planning. I’m not that type of person that lays out the outfits for the week. I just want to throw a bunch of crap together that I know I can just rotate and recycle. I also like access to a laundry machine, so if we have a house that we’re in, I love clean clothes.

Claire: It’s all about packing. 

Joy: It’s really all about packing, but I’m also the beach-type of vacations. That’s why I think I loved our trips that we did as a group because it was already planned for us. I love going somewhere where I don’t have to worry too much about what are we doing today, what are we doing today. I don’t want to plan stuff. I just want to have an idea of going to a beach and relaxing. 

Claire: And I’m on either extreme. Either I look for a trip that’s like backpacking, outdoors trip where I have to pack every single thing I’m going to need.

Joy: Including food and utensils.

Claire: Food, water, every single thing, I have to bring it on my back.

Joy: Oh, that would stress me out.

Claire: I mean, it’s stressful to be honest. Or, like you said, where basically I just show up with a swimsuit and a hoodie, and I’m like, “What are we doing today?”

Joy: If I can just do one pair of flip flops, I’m in.

Claire: Or the other thing that I look for in a trip is access to a lot of food.

Joy: Like buffets and different restaurants, yeah.

Claire: Like different types of cuisine.

Joy: Yeah.

Claire: Alright guys, well thank you for hanging out this week. I’m going to go outside in the great outdoors.

Joy: Go and enjoy. Thanks you guys for hanging with us another episode. You know where to find us on social. @joyandclaire_ on Instagram. This is Joy and Claire on Facebook. And please share with a friend. Support the podcast by sharing, and sharing is caring. Love you guys. Stay safe. Talk to you next week.

Claire: Talk to you next week. Bye.

Joy: Bye.

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