Colorado’s mega snow storm, The Crossfit Open, Missing Crossfit, Joe Rogan and Mat Fraser episode, part II Meghan and Oprah interview, celebrity culture, Netflix Marriage and Mortgage, and a quick listener Q&A.
www.joyandclaire.com
email: thisisjoyandclaire@gmail.com
instagram: joyandclaire_
This is Joy & Claire Episode 66: Talkinā More Crossfit
Episode Date: March 18, 2021, 2020
Audio Length: 52:58 minutes
Joy: Hey guys, this is Joy.
Claire: And this is Claire.
Joy: [laughing] This is Joy and Claire.
Claire: Got a little phlegm. Let me tell you why I have phlegm.
Joy: Why?
Claire: Itās because I just ate half a bag of potato chips. And half way through the bag of potato chips, I was like, you know what this needs. To be dipped in cream cheese.
Joy: Oh no. Iāve made that mistake so many times before. When I was eating dairy and I would log on, and Iād be like, gosh dang it. I just had Greek yogurt. And Iād be so phlegmy the entire conversation.
Claire: Yeah. So I just ate a not insignificant amount of cream cheese atop Ruffles. I havenāt bought Ruffles potato chips –
Joy: āRuffles have ridges.ā
Claire: āRuffles have ridges.ā I havenāt had those potato chips – if you guys have any idea⦠I feel like most of you will know what commercial weāre talking about.
Joy: You really should.
Claire: You guys arenāt that young. Sorry.
Joy: [laughing] You guys are old.
Claire: You guys are old like us, itās fine. Our au pairās friend came over this weekend. Theyāre both vaccinated. I feel the need to make a disclaimer about everything.
Joy: Right, right, you have to explain everything.
Claire: This is the same friend I refer to whoās been in our bubble this whole time. And she brought over this giant, giant bag of Ruffles. And she left them here, and so I was just eating some and Iām like, āThis needs to be dipped in some cream cheese.ā So I just shoved them in my mouth. Donāt regret it at all except that now Iām feeling just a little phlegmy.
Joy: Yeah, no regrets.
Claire: So I have my La Croix, which weāve also learned from experience can make me burpy on the podcast.
Joy: You just ate all the wrong things right before recording. So you donāt drink fizzy water or else you burp the whole time. And you donāt diary or else –
Claire: You donāt eat thick dairy because it coats your larynx.
Joy: Iām just going to have to do so much editing.
Claire: I donāt know. I think you should leave it in for ambiance.
Joy: You know what, we should. I edit so many coughs and sniffles and just human noises. What if we just were our raw selves? #nomakeup
Claire: You guys donāt even know how gross it sounds to be four inches away from someoneās face for an hour. Itās gross. Sorry.
Joy: So letās talk real quick about the weather because thatās all we have to talk about in quarantine. How was the snow yesterday? Weāre recording this on a Monday. Colorado just had one of its epic snow storms. Saturday, it was really funny because it was supposed to roll in on Saturday, so everyone in Colorado is like, āOh my gosh, whereās the snow? Hahaha. All the weather forecasters are wrong.ā Because thatās happened before where weāve had storms and theyāre like, āItās going to be hugeā and then itās a flake of snow. So I think we were all prepared for that, and then of course Sunday we were very, very wrong.
Claire: Okay, well, it was supposed to start snowing early, early Saturday morning, and it didnāt start snowing until overnight into Sunday. So it was delayed by a good 18 hours. So on Saturday everyone was like, āWhat the heck.ā Our friend Jess was like, āIt was a flopageddon.ā And then on Sunday she texted and was like, āI resend my flopageddon comment.ā Because yeah, we ended up getting a solid couple of feet of snow, which is really common. In Colorado, the big snow storms come in the front range of Colorado, in the Denver, Boulder, Fort Collins, Colorado Springs. Thatās not in order. It goes Fort Collins, Boulder, Denver, Colorado Springs. I want you to know that I know it.
Joy: Make sure that Claire knows her maps.
Claire: I do. Iāve lived here my whole life. I know that Colorado Springs is at the bottom. That from Colorado Springs to Fort Collins is referred to as the front range. And the biggest snow storms for the front range come in the spring. The reason for that – I know you guys want to know this. And I know that you know that I know it – is because where the moisture actually comes from is we get these tropical flows that actually come up and rather than coming up over the mountains, which we donāt tend to get that much moisture from the storms that come from the west because they dump all their moisture in the mountains and by the time they get to us they donāt have any left. So we get more from the storms that come up to us from the gulf. So when they reach the mountains and they meet the colder air – and this varies storm to storm – but thatās typically why theyāll just dump all their moisture right on top of us. So thatās what happened.
Joy: I actually didnāt know all about that, and Iād like to follow that guy you introduced me to. Itās like Denver and Front Range Weather on Facebook. Heās amazing. Well, heās on Instagram too.
Claire: And Instagram, yeah. Heās like a hyper local weather man.
Joy: He knows his stuff. He should be on the news. Why isnāt he on the news?
Claire: Because heās like, āI donāt want to be on the news. I can say whatever I want on my Facebook page.ā
Joy: So true.
Claire: I know, itās great.
Joy: Okay. So yesterday was a huge snow day for us. We stayed in and we shoveled a lot and we played with the dogs in the yard. Because they canāt really do anything, and we could go for walks but the snow was so deep that you borderline needed snow shoes.
Claire: We were shoveling, and if you started at your front door and work your way down the driveway, by the time you get to the end of the driveway you have to go back to the front door.
Joy: Yeah, because the snow just kept coming. And it was coming with a vengeance. We saw a couple walking down our street with their dog off leash. Which is find because no one was on the road. It wasnāt a danger. You could tell the dog was just staying close to them. They were walking with snow shoes. Thatās the perfect idea right now because you really couldnāt walk. Even in snow boots, it would be so annoying. You would just have to lift your leg up and keep marching into the snow. So yeah, we spent most of the day playing with the dogs outside and staying inside and watching TV. And then at one point the satellite went out so we couldnāt watch the Grammyās live.
Claire: Oh no.
Joy: I was sad about that, but I went back and watched the replay of Taylor Swiftās performance, which was great. So then today I completely binged all of her albums again, and I just cannot say enough. She won Album of the Year. I canāt say enough about Folklore. Sheās the best songwriter. Sheās such a good songwriter. So this morning I get up and Iām checking all my messages at work. Are we going to go into the office? First of all, anyone who works in healthcare, healthcare never closes. I donāt work in a hospital, but we work in a healthcare building. So Iām like, for sure weāre going to be closed today. This is pretty epic. Everyone on the news is saying this is the fourth worst storm in Denverās history. So Iām like, okay, theyāre going to close today. Well, we donāt close. I should say, we closed for in-person appointments, but we were all still able to do our virtual appointment. As a manager, itās like, youāve got to try to go in. I canāt just be like, Iām going to be cushy and sit at home.
Claire: See, my manager took the opposite approach. We work from home and have been for the past year, but it used to be if the school district closed then they would also close our office. For a variety of reasons because they were like –
Joy: Parents too.
Claire: Yeah, but primarily because they were like, there are so many parents that work here. If your kids are home, then weāll close the office. But since nobody cares anymore because weāve all been home with our kids for a year, they didnāt even acknowledge it today. And my boss was like, āIām taking a half day. I donāt even care.ā I was like, āYou go dude.ā I mean, he still probably had to take PTO, but he was like, āIām not having this. I want to build a snowman.ā
Joy: Yeah, it was a perfect day to have a fun snow day. So I started to pull out of the driveway, and at this point Iāve driven in plenty of snow before. Are you okay driving in the snow, or do you get nervous?
Claire: I donāt get nervous, but I get nervous because I know that other people around me are bad at driving in the snow.
Joy: Yeah. I donāt like driving in the snow when thereās other people around, which is, you know, really silly because thereās always going to be other cars around. So I got out. Iām fine driving in the snow, but today I was like, āItās going to be pretty dicey.ā So I get in my car to leave and I pull out and immediately get stuck in the street.
Claire: Does your car have all-wheel drive? Probably not.
Joy: Yeah.
Claire: Oh, it does?
Joy: Yeah.
Claire: Do you have snow tires though?
Joy: Yeah, and the Tesla even has a feature thatās like all-road something so it turns on all these fancy features to turn into a Jeep. It actually turns into a Jeep.
Claire: Itās a transformer.
Joy: Itās actually a transformer.
Claire: It just becomes a snow cat.
Joy: Then all of the sudden it flies. So yeah, I was using all these gears. So the snow was so fluffy and wet, thereās no way youāre going anyway. I start laughing because Iām like, āIām stuck. Well, Iām not going in to work.ā And that was my immediate reaction, āIām not going to work. I tried.ā
Claire: Oh well. [laughing] I did my best.
Joy: So my neighbors were out shoveling, and Scott comes out. All of the sudden, they start pushing me. Theyāre like, āIf you get to 32nd, you can make it.ā Which is about 1/4 of a mile.
Claire: Yeah, and youāre like, āIām good.ā
Joy: Iām like, āNo, Iām good. I can just stay home.ā
Claire: āItās fine.ā
Joy: They were trying so hard –
Claire: That you couldnāt say no.
Joy: That Iām like, okay, I guess Iām going to work.
Claire: Iām just going to turn around actually.
Joy: And so they tried so hard. You could tell these men were just inside, cooped up for a day, and were like, āWe need a job. I will shovel you out. I will get you to 32nd Avenue.ā
Claire: Right. āI will help you in distress.ā
Joy: āI will help you get to work.ā So anyway, I made it to work, but it was pretty dicey though. The nice thing about storms like this in Colorado, especially in the spring – it happens in the winter too. Any shrink of sunshine just melts things immediately because the sun is so intense here. So anyway, we were fine, for anyone who was worried about us.
Claire: I know, thatās the best thing about Colorado as a whole. Any time it snows, itās melted by the end of the week. I feel like Iāve told this story recently enough, I donāt know if it was on the podcast. But Brandonās family, as you guys know, lives in Madison. And I remember one time they came to visit in December, and they were like, āWow, it hasnāt snowed at all yet?ā And I was like, āWhat are you talking about?ā And they were like, āWell, thereās no snow on the ground.ā I was like, āWhat? Ohhh.ā Because in Wisconsin, it snows and it just stays there until the spring.
Joy: Or like Minnesota people. Itās always there, which drives me crazy.
Claire: No, uh uh, thatās not how we operate her in Colorado.
Joy: Donāt you have friends in your life that think you constantly live in snow? Probably like you live in Minnesota.
Claire: Yeah. I remember one time when I was in 6th grade, 7th grade, I went on a cruise – which I hated by the way because I get so motion sick, but it was fun at the time. We went to Mexico.
Joy: Arenāt you on a big enough boat where you donāt get motion sickness, or do you still feel it?
Claire: For most people, thatās probably the case. I mean, I have been known to get seasick in a hammock, so Iām a sensitive little system. But it was fine. I actually feel like it probably wasnāt that bad at the time. But anyway, the point of the story is that when I was there you know you hang out in the little teenās club, and I met these girls from Texas and they were like, āOh my gosh, youāre from Colorado? Do you ski to school?ā I was like, āWhat?ā And thatās when I learned that people believe that in Colorado –
Joy: Youāre always in the snow, yeah.
Claire: Most of Colorado is not even in the mountains.
Joy: No. Right, yeah. Especially living where we live in the cities, it melts immediately and then you would never know that it snowed here. Anyway, all the weather talk. Moving forward, daylight savings. How are the kids?
Claire: Honestly though –
Joy: Hey parents, how are you doing?
Claire: Weāre not doing well. Check on your friends who have kids with sleep schedules. We are not okay. Honestly, because we had the big snow storm on daylight savings transition day, the whole day just felt like a wash. So it kind of actually was fine. Although, last night we were outside shoveling and all of the sudden Brandon was like, āOh my gosh, itās 6:15.ā I was like, āOh no.ā Because usually we try to do dinner around the table at 6. Then that way Evie can be in bed between 7 and 7:30. We didnāt even start eating dinner until after 7 last night. One of my friends who has two twins who are the same age as Evie, she texted me and she was like, āWhat time are you doing bedtime?ā I was like, āGirl, we havenāt even started dinner. Do not take parenting tips from me tonight. We are just throwing ourselves to the wolves. I donāt even know.ā
Joy: The whole daylight at 6:30 all of the sudden threw me off too because Iām like, āIām usually winding down by now. What is going on?ā
Claire: I know, I hate daylight savings time. I mean, I like the lighter, later situation. But the change just feels unnecessary. And itās like, I was just getting in the groove. So anyway, weāre okay. The other big thing is Evie already, her nap has been pushing later and later just because sheās getting closer and closer to dropping napping at all, which I hesitate to even say out loud because I donāt want to jinx it.
Joy: Donāt jinx it.
Claire: So now sheās been going down for her nap at like 1, which is very late. So anyway, itās alright. Weāre hanging in there. Itās not as bad as it could have been.
Joy: What happened with going out in the snow? That picture was so cute. Miles was like, āItās too windy, and itās too cold.ā
Claire: Theyāre crying hysterically, and Iām like, āWeāre out doing outdoorsy things, and weāre going out in the snow.ā We went out. We tried to take the kids out.
Joy: Just in the front yard or what?
Claire: Just in the front yard. Weāre not going on an expedition here guys. But you still have to get on all your stuff, right?
Joy: Of course, yeah.
Claire: It took 30 minutes just to get everyone dressed. We walk outside, and it was so windy, and the kids – we have goggles for them, but neither of them wanted to wear them and so they were just getting blasted in the face with snow. So immediately they both start crying. And Brandon had gotten these snow brick things, and he was like, āWeāre going to build a fort.ā So they go out. Brandonās holding Evie, whoās smashing her face into his chest and just crying like āget me out of here.ā Miles is so upset because the wind is in his face. But heās acting like heās upset about the bricks, so finally I was like, āWeāre going back inside. This is not worth it. We are going back in side.ā We get back inside, and theyāre both just crying.
Joy: So cute.
Claire: Evie just looked so horror-struck.
Joy: And Miles was so cute. āItās too windy. Itās too cold.ā
Claire: Itās like, alright, well we tried. We tried to be that outdoorsy, any weather family, and it didnāt work.
Joy: And on your video, you were just like, āYeah, itās too windy, huh?ā
Claire: Yeah. I know, buddy, I know. Itās windy outside. Iām just going to validate that because youāre sobbing. I know. And weāve tried so hard to be like, āThereās no such thing as bad weather. Letās get the kids outside, and everybody does better.ā And itās true. It could be the crappiest weather outside, and 9 times out of 10, everybody does better if we get some fresh air. But that was not the case yesterday.
Joy: That was not yesterday.
Claire: So instead we set up a sledding hill on our downstairs basement stairs where we just flattened a bunch of cardboard boxes and lines the stairs with them, and then Miles used his sled. Then when heād get to the bottom, he found that you could flip. So the way that we found that out was an accident. I was sitting there trying to take a video of him. I had Evie in my lap, and all of the sudden heās flipping over coming towards me and Evie. So that video I posted on our Instagram stories, which by the time you hear this it will be long gone, but if you saw it the story behind it is that at the end of the video, it pans over to Brandon who for some reason had a cheese head hat on. No idea why he was even wearing that, and he has this look on his face like [slow motion voice], āOh no.ā
Joy: Because it was slow motion.
Claire: It was slow motion. And hereās the thing is that while I was taking that video, I didnāt even realize that I had gotten his reaction because at that moment I was so preoccupied because Miles had just flipped into Evie, who was sitting in my lap. And Miles was screaming because he landed on a Hot Wheels car right on his butt cheek.
Joy: Oh, so it hurt.
Claire: So it hurt because he landed on something hard. But I didnāt know thatās all that it was. I was like, did he break his arm or land on a finger or something. And then Evie started crying because he was crying. So when I went back to watch the video, I was like, āOh, this is hilarious.ā
Joy: Oh my God, it was so funny. First of all, it just pans over to Brandonās face. It truly is like a [slow motion voice], āWhoa.ā And then he has a cheese hat on.
Claire: Why does he have a cheese hat on? And then also, he does not make any moves at all. Heās sitting there with his hands folded in his lap and is just watching all three of us turn into a mosh pit, and heās just like [slow motion voice] but not actually moving. Okay, so the other fun thing that has happened since we last spoke is that the CrossFit Open started.
Joy: Yes, okay, and you posted that you still get nervous about the Open.
Claire: Yes. If you guys have been listening to us since our Girls Gone WOD days, you will remember that there was a year where – we used to be so into the Open. We used to do Open prep episodes. We were into it. And not that we were competitive, but just that we took it so seriously.
Joy: We got so excited.
Claire: And every year we have this conversation that the Open makes you crazy, just remember. Itās going to happen. And this year going into it, I didnāt even sign up for the Open because I was like, I donāt have the bandwidth for that type of stress. And still, even though Iām not signed up, it still made me crazy because like I was talking about a couple of weeks ago, Iām still trying to get out of the house, go to the gym as much as possible. So of course, Iām still going to end up doing the Open workout most of the time. The week one workout was wall walks and double unders, which you guys know I love double unders. First of all, I forgot my jump rope at home. So luckily, Nicole Christenson who I love is the owner of CrossFit Roots, she was in the workout. And I was like, āNicole, can I use your jump rope?ā So bless Nicole for letting me use her extra jump rope. But at the beginning, the coach was like, āSo who here has not signed up for the Open?ā And I raised my hand. She was like, āClaire, why are you not signed up for the Open?ā Afterwards, she was like, āReally, tell me. Why didnāt you sign up for the Open? Havenāt you done it before?ā And I was like, āYeah, it just makes me stressed out. I just didnāt want to.ā And I mean, she was fine with that. She was just like, āThatās so interesting that it affects you that much.ā I donāt know what to tell you.
Joy: Yeah, I think itās just also the history with it and you remember thatās how you feel. Itās important to you. You remember that it was important to you. How did it feel? How was the workout?
Claire: The workout itself was actually great. I have not done an RX wall walk probably since Miles was born. But in the Open, even though Iām not signed up, they still run the classes. Even if youāre not signed up, you canāt pick and choose the scales. You either have to do it as prescribed or as written scaled. So I couldnāt have scaled the wall walks but still done double unders. Because the scaled version was single unders. I freaking hate single unders.
Joy: Yeah, I do too. I feel like itās not even close to the same.
Claire: Because I love double unders, when I have to single unders, Iām so bored.
Joy: I had to do that one year too where I had to scale it. Iām like, āCan I just do double unders and scale the rest of it?ā Yeah.
Claire: And you just count them as singles. I donāt even care.
Joy: Theyāre totally different.
Claire: Totally different. I just donāt like them. Iām just going to do the double unders, and weāll just see how far I get. So I got into the round of 15, which I was really happy with. So I ended up doing over 20 wall walks, which I was really happy with because like I said Iāve been scaling wall walks for years just because my core doesnāt feel good when I get up that close to the wall. It has been really hard for me to hold tension in my core. So thatās what I was really focused on. But it felt good, but it just was like, why am I so nervous? This is so weird. After all these years, I still get nervous going into a workout. But I will also say, it was so fun because I felt like one of the first times, I was back in the gym. CrossFit Roots is huge. Their facility is over 10,000 square feet. Itās this ginormous warehouse.
Joy: Such a great space.
Claire: Awesome space. And in non-COVID times, they have 2-3 classes running at a time. But so in COVID times, what thatās meant is that they only typically have had one class running at time, but it can be a pretty full class. You can have 15 or 20 people in that class.
Joy: Right, because it can be so spaced out. And donāt they have some rigs outside now?
Claire: Yes. So they have two rigs inside and a rig outside. So theyāve done such an awesome job. They were really good at enforcing masking. I say it every time. But the reason I bring this up is because there were so many people there, and the music was going and everyone was excited, they were judging. It really felt like being back in the gym for a Friday Night Lights during the Open.
Joy: For sure, for sure.
Claire: Even though it was the middle of the day. I missed it so much, and even just having a glimpse of it, I was like, āOh my gosh, this was so fun.ā
Joy: Yeah, so fun. It really is so fun. And when you do it and youāre in that energy, people are watching and cheering you on, and itās kind of like this little mini competition, I would have been the same exact way. So when was the last Open? Didnāt they have a weird year where they did it in February and then October and then did it in February and then skipped it?
Claire: So the last one was in October 2019.
Joy: Wow. Okay. Because then they decided to do it in February because they moved it.
Claire: So then they were like, weāre going to postpone it because so many gyms were still closed in October. They were going to move it back to February. They did a bunch of other stuff that I am not familiar with in terms of, like they took away Sanctionals and brought back some sort of regional thing. Iām butchering this, and I feel like you guys would count on us to know these things.
Joy: Weāre really out of touch with the CrossFit stuff.
Claire: Someone call Justin LoFranco because I donāt know what the heckās going on.
Joy: Justin, call us.
Claire: Justin, please let us know.
Joy: I miss Justin. I miss all the CrossFit people. I really do.
Claire: Whereās Armon?
Joy: Whereās Armon? Speaking of Clubhouse last week when we talked about Clubhouse, the only person we talked to on Clubhouse that was online was Armon. So we set up a little call with Armon. We just happened to talk to Armon on Clubhouse when we all signed up, and it really made me miss just being at the Games around all these amazing people. So I think the history makes me nostalgic. Our whole inspiration for starting this podcast was because of The WODcast Podcast. And so I have such a soft spot in my heart for those guys and seeing all those people. I think the thing that makes me really nostalgic is thinking about when we went to the Open workout in Madison. That was so –
Claire: That was so fun!
Joy: So much fun.
Claire: To the point where people used to just call us Girls Gone WODcast all the time.
Joy: Oh yeah.
Claire: Theyād be like, āHave you heard Girls Gone WODcast?ā Thatās not our name, but I accept.
Joy: Oh my gosh. And it was really great, and we were standing right there, and we got to hang out with Margo and Nichole. Itās great.
Claire: I know. The good ole days. Weāve been chatting about CrossFit more and more lately, and Iām like maybe we just need to bring that back as a topic. We needed a break. We needed some space from CrossFit as a topic, but Iām ready to talk about it again.
Joy: Iām ready to talk about it again. Especially because Iāve been going back in the gym, and Iām feeling so good. Insanely good to where I feel like I could do some light workouts. Nothing crazy and watch it closely, to where I just feel strong. Being in that gym –
Claire: Um, we did have a request for some more Open dance routines like you used to do, so that would be a good way to just dip your toe back in getting your heartrate up.
Joy: Really? Somebody requested that? Wow.
Claire: Yeah. They were like, bring them back.
Joy: Our gym owner would love that. Heās the cutest. Heās the cutest. I know he doesnāt listen to this, but heās the cutest and he will gladly do a dance party.
Claire: Get him on because he has a fan club.
Joy: He really does. Hart. Hart Wise is his name. So yes, CrossFit is in our hearts forever and we should probably just talk about it.
Claire: Speaking of which, did you want to talk about that Joe Rogan interview with Mat Fraser?
Joy: Oh okay.
Claire: Those are the last two people I ever thought we would bring up on this podcast, let alone together. I canāt stand Joe Rogan. He makes me crazy. And I feel like when people are like, āOh my gosh, I love Joe Rogan. Itās my favorite podcast.ā I just learned so much about you in one sentence.
Joy: In one sentence.
Claire: If anybody is listening and your podcast is Joe Rogan and you currently feel highly offended, I just canāt stand him –
Joy: And I also wonder why youāre listening to our podcast.
Claire: He just, ugh, yeah.
Joy: Not to be fair, but my perspective is I do listen to some interviews because heās had some great people on. Sometimes I donāt know how he got this guest because theyāre so far from how his vibe is, but Iāll pick and choose and listen to some interviews that heās done. He just does a three-hour long show. Whoās got time for that? But he makes like $30 million a year off podcasting, and I would like to sign up for that.
Claire: Yes, excuse me, I would like to sign up for $30 million a year. I will be highly unlikable for $30 million a year.
Joy: Thatās the key, Claire. We are way too nice. We just need to start being assholes.
Claire: I accept. Thatās all it takes.
Joy: Iām half way there. No, Iām just kidding.
Claire: Yeah, Joy, everyone would be like, āYes, Joy is the unlikable one.ā
Joy: [laughing] Oh my gosh, okay. So Joe Rogan, the Joe Rogan podcast.
Claire: We can just call it Joy Rogan. From Girls Gone WODcast to Joy Rogan. Itās just right there. We just align ourselves closely with the male counterparts of our dreams.
Joy: Totally. And then we sneak right in.
Claire: I see absolutely no flaws in our plan. Letās execute immediately.
Joy: Okay. And scene.
Claire: And scene. Youāre now listening to the Joy Rogan podcast, go on. Talking to Mat Fraser.
Joy: [announcer voice] Youāre now listening to the Joy Rogan podcast.
Claire: See, thatās why I canāt stand it. I canāt even get through the introduction. I feel like Iām in an infomercial.
Joy: [announcer voice] Super, super, super. Yeah, itās super bro-y. We got so much crap for saying bro-y all those years ago, but Iām going to say it.
Claire: Did we?
Joy: Oh yeah.
Claire: I donāt remember that.
Joy: Remember from the retreat we went on? We said bro-y a lot. Maybe you donāt remember that.
Claire: No, apparently that did not register for me as a controversy. Okay, go on.
Joy: Okay. So Joe Rogan had on Mat Fraser. They talked a lot about CrossFit. I listened to half of it because I just didnāt have three hours, but the thing that kind of stuck out for me, which I kind of laughed at, was Mat Fraser didnāt know a lot about the sport of CrossFit before he started. So he was kind of – maybe many people know this about him. I didnāt. But he was going to a CrossFit gym just to use the barbells, and he was mostly into weight lifting. So he was not interested in doing the workouts. And all his weight lifting friends were making fun of him when they saw him on ESPN. He was like, āI didnāt tell any of my friends that I was doing CrossFit until they saw me on TV.ā The other thing he said was like, Joe Rogan would ask him questions about, āHow much does it cost to run a CrossFit gym, or how much do they have to pay per year.ā Heās like, āI donāt know.ā Iām like, oh my gosh, how do you not know these things? He didnāt know much about the sport itself, even the history of it. Of course, you and I being geeks about it for all those years, oh my gosh, he just kind of walked in and won the CrossFit Games for years and years and years. And he could barely be like, āI think they used to drug test. I donāt know.ā And just kind of was in his own world. Which, thatās fine. He won a ton. He also talked a little bit about how CrossFit, itās not a lucrative business, if you want to be in it for the money. Where you make more money is with the sponsorships. So I thought that was interesting. But if you want to kind of just see the nuts and bolts of the interview and not go through the whole three hours, the Morning Chalk Up put up an article that Iāll link to in the show notes just about the four takeaways. I guess there was some beef with Dave Castro that I didnāt get to that point in the show yet, but he talked about something with Dave Castro not liking him. When asked why, Frazier said, āEveryone just jumps when he says jump, and I wasnāt that guy.ā So I guess Dave posted something on his Instagram and thereās a little bit of drama there. I personally donāt know all the details, but itās kind of funny because Mat Fraserās now saying heās retiring. Heās retiring.
Claire: Great for him.
Joy: You probably made tons of money. You won the Games five years in a row.
Claire: Exactly. I hope you were smart with that, and you can probably live off of that for a while. Weāve always talked about Dave Castro just being like, it seems like he really thrives on just starting stuff a little bit. He is always like, āWell, I just need to be the guy that people donāt like.ā
Joy: The villain.
Claire: Sees himself as the villain. You know, whatever. I will say as a vote in Dave Castroās favor, and to bring this back to the Open, my favorite thing is his completely random Open Instagram hints.
Joy: Yeah, you did one last week right before we ended the show I think.
Claire: Yeah, he put one on. He did one. It was a dead wolf skull or something, right? I just love it. Weāve often talked on Girls Gone, whatās Dave Castroās vibe? We just canāt get a read on him.
Joy: Canāt get a read. I would love to get a good read. Not in an interview because heās not, you know, right.
Claire: Right. What kind of a guy is he really like? Is he doing this on purpose? Is he just kind of standoffish? Is he actually a diva act? Whatās going on in that head? I feel like heās an enigma where even though he has a pretty public persona, it doesnāt feel like itās his real personality.
Joy: Right, right.
Claire: Who knows? I also think itās really interesting, just from the Mat Fraser perspective, that you can be at the top of a sport for that long and still have really no idea what – he just didnāt care. It wasnāt relative to him, the business of the sport. The business of CrossFit. Which is fine. I bet thereās a lot of professional athletes out there that donāt know how their team is making money. They wouldnāt be able to tell you, āWe bring in X, Y, Z from places, and these are how games are scheduled and ads are bought and blah blah blah. But I just find that really interesting. I think itās unusual in CrossFit because so many high-level CrossFit athletes also own gyms. Because you have to in most cases. But that just wasnāt the case for him.
Joy: Youāre working out all the time, 24/7. Yeah, itās interesting because I think I just wrongly assume that he was this super CrossFitter that had the goal of going to the Games, and it was kind of a fluke. I think that heās just a very fit dude that happened to be like, āOh, Iām really good at this.ā Kind of like Rich Froning, that same thing where he just started showing up to competitions and killing it.
Claire: And winning.
Joy: And winning. And Matt, he talked about how he just started doing it to get some –
Claire: Right, to support himself through college.
Joy: But not even that, heās like, āI would get a thousand dollars a year in free protein and I was excited about that.ā
Claire: Totally. Thatās how I feel about this podcast.
Joy: [laughing] Thatās not wrong.
Claire: Itās not wrong. There was also an interview. It was in one of the fittest on earth documentaries where I remember them making a comment of, āFrazierās got this in the bag. Heās so short. Thatās what heās doing. Heās killing it.ā I remember them cutting to Frazier and him being like, āWhy do they keep saying, āHeās so short.ā Why canāt they say, maybe itās because I was training as an Olympic lifting athlete for ten years. Itās never, āOh he has this amazing background in Olympic lifting.ā Itās always, āHeās so short.āā
Joy: Heās so short, thatās the reason why.
Claire: I just thought that was funny.
Joy: Hereās a note from the Morning Chalk Up article. It says, āFrazier was discussing what motivates him and how some people were galling him Games performance flukes, which led to a response from Rogan of, āHow can anybody say itās a fluke to win the CrossFit Games?āā Which I agree, itās definitely not a fluke. And so I guess he discussed the infamous, āHeās slippingā comment about Frazier from CrossFit general manager of sport Dave Castro prior to the 2020 Games. I mean, there was something mentioned there. And then Dave I guess responded to that. Which is funny to me because Iām like, why donāt they just talk. Why canāt Dave Castro just call Matt and say, āHey dude, you said something wrong. This is incorrect.ā But they donāt have that relationship. He said, āMat Fraser said that I published an article about him slipping. An articleās timeless. Itās a thoughtful record of a position. An article suggests an official statement. Problem is, that never happened. I never put out an article. I made a quick verbal opinion comment on an IG live discussion with fans. I donāt have a problem with Matt or anyone talking negative about me. I have a problem with blatant lies, as millions of people are watching Joe Rogan. Details matter, facts matter, the truth matters.ā But to me, I donāt think it was a super significant part of the podcast. I donāt know.
Claire: How can it be? It was three hours long.
Joy: So in some way, maybe that got to Matt because heās like, āThe guy said I was slipping.ā
Claire: I mean, it must have. It would get to you if you were –
Joy: Get under your skin if you were super competitive. I need to listen to the rest of the episode to really get the context of what he was saying.
Claire: I know, I feel like last week you hadnāt listened to the whole Meghan and Harry. This week –
Joy: Which I have updates and details on that, yes.
Claire: Right. Letās talk about that.
Joy: So part two. The thing I walked away with was I feel that it was good that they got to be in the public to say what they needed to say. But I think, rightfully so, it was very guarded and very⦠I donāt want to say ācalculatedā because I donāt think thatās a very positive word.
Claire: Like scripted without being scripted.
Joy: Scripted without being scripted.
Claire: But I get why it would have to be.
Joy: Exactly. But I get why it would have to be. So I think what I was expecting was something a little more chit chatty. I didnāt expect it to be super relaxed because itās a very serious topic, but everyone was very guarded. So then, I think I kind of made these assumptions that Iām like, oh my gosh, they have been through so much, and whatās going to happen to them, and how are they going to live their life without being close to the royals? What is he going to do without his family? But the reason why they were probably so guarded is because of what theyāve been through. They canāt just go out and have this tell-all story. I donāt think that we as the public deserve, or we donāt have a right to peopleās information, but I think that what they wanted to do was truly be like – theyāre kind of comparing it to Dianaās interview when she was kind of dismissed from being a part of the royal family and how sheās like, āThis is how it is on the inside.ā Nothingās really changed apparently from people who were married into the royal family. But I think what made me sad and also like, āOh my gosh,ā I just hope that everyone has some type of their happy ending here, is how guarded Meghan seemed even talking to Oprah and how scripted it felt, which also made me sad. Sheās still trying to figure out how she can talk about this life, and sheās married to a man who this is his family. In the end, it just made me sad. It made me very sad.
Claire: I didnāt watch it. I get why it would still need to be so scripted. I think that that probably was a smart thing to do, to not just go into it being like, āI donāt know, letās just see what Oprahās going to ask. Weāll go off the cuff.ā
Joy: Totally, right, right.
Claire: There really are some big – I can only imagine, not only retributions from the family, but safety retributions from people who are just crazy and any time that you speak out against anybody in this world, let alone a family like the British royal family, I just canāt imagine how scary that would feel.
Joy: Very scary. So thatās the part two of that. Iāll say it again. I donāt take a huge, I wouldnāt say āinterest,ā but I donāt like to be super voyeur. As much as I love celebrities, I donāt read gossip magazines. I donāt like to read that trashy stuff. And this is by no means trashy, but I donāt follow Meghan and Harry. I watched the interview because it was Oprah. Sheās going to have a very interesting and respectful conversation.
Claire: And it almost feels different when itās like, okay, this is a serious issue going on in someoneās life. Itās not like Kim Kardashian flew to Mexico with her family. This feels more serious. It feels like a bigger deal of something versus some rich celebrity family gossip`.
Joy: Yeah. And I think itās just that I look at celebrities, and as much as Iām like, āI love celebrity culture, I love it,ā I do it because I love movies, I love Hollywood, I love the glitz and glam of all of that. But it just makes me very aware of how we even treat celebrities. You know, the whole Britney Spears documentary talks about that. How we build these women up just to tear them down. And I saw that with Meghan where itās Meghan Markle, okay, then we have these horribly racist things in the tabloids. Theyāre just tearing her apart, and thatās what I think about as the Britney Spears thing too where they just build them up to tear them down. I think it made me even more aware of how we treat or think about females in media and how much we are so quick to throw our judgements and perceptions and criticism and judgements on them. Because I think there are some parts of it where I was watching her talk and Iām like, is this calculated? I was very much aware of how guarded she was. Iām like, yeah, but maybe she needs to be. Iām still going to love watching reality shows, but theyāre putting that out there for reality.
Claire: Yeah, they know. Theyāre doing that on purpose.
Joy: Exactly. Speaking of reality shows, let me just put a quick shout out love for this new reality show I started called Marriage or Mortgage.
Claire: Okay, so is the premise exactly what it sounds like?
Joy: Exactly what it sounds like. Itās based in Nashville. They have a real estate agent and a wedding planner that are working together, who by the way are so cute. Theyāre both super, super cute and likable, so itās fun to watch them. To be honest, I am at a point where – so I watched the first episode and Iām like, oh my gosh, this is really cute, the couples are really cute. Scottās like, āThese guys are really cute.ā So itās fun, likable people that youāre watching. But really the premise is the wedding planner takes them through their dream wedding, and she shows them places where they could get married and they pretty much plan a wedding together. And then the real estate agent goes and gets an idea of what their dream house is and then takes them to three or four houses that fall under their budget and their desires and so on and so forth. So at the end, they decide are they going to put their money towards the wedding or theyāre going to go toward buying a house. And at the end, Iām like, really? Youāre going to put all this money into a wedding and not buy a house.
Claire: Do any of them choose wedding?
Joy: Yeah.
Claire: Oh wow.
Joy: Yeah, for sure.
Claire: I wish that somebody had done that for me when I was 24 or whatever getting married because it didnāt even cross my mind, āHey Claire, maybe spend this on ā – I mean, although, who knows, who knows what life would have looked like. But if somebody would have been like, āIām going to take you to a few houses that you could buy with this money instead, just give you a little reality check,ā I think I would have been like, āGreat, I will be going to the courthouse and I will be taking some of my friends out for drinks, and then I will be buying this house. Thank you.ā
Joy: Exactly. So the funny thing that I notice as Iām watching this – I love watching them go through houses. I love watching that part. So maybe I just need to watch a show where theyāre looking at houses.
Claire: Like House Hunters.
Joy: Like House Hunters or Million Dollar Beach House. You know, people love to just flip through Zillow and look at houses –
Claire: Didnāt you love that Selling Sunset one too?
Joy: Oh my gosh, I love Selling Sunset.
Claire: I spend so much time on Zillow. I just browse all the time.
Joy: Do you really?
Claire: Oh, every day.
Joy: Oh my gosh, what you looking for Claire?
Claire: I meanā¦
Joy: So many things.
Claire: So many things that could only occur in my dream house. I mean, I donāt know. We would move to a bigger house, so Iām always just like, āIām keeping an eye out.ā I tell myself.
Joy: I do that too.
Claire: And I mean, in this world, you canāt impulse buy a house. And also, if youāre not currently pre-approved for a loan, you canāt be serious. By the time you see a house that you like, itās off the market.
Joy: Yeah. So Marriage or Mortgage. Iām not saying to run out and watch it, but it really is good eye candy for houses and also wedding ideas. Maybe youāre getting married and you just want wedding ideas.
Claire: I mean, a lot of people are at both those stages at the same time, so they have a huge target demographic.
Joy: Exactly. Oh my gosh, there was one couple – and I think someone DMād us about this when we posted it – one couple picked wedding and then COVID hit.
Claire: Womp womp womp womp.
Joy: Because I think they filmed this back in February and then everything had to be changed. So they put all their money into a wedding that really had to be downsized. Whatever, itās fine. They got married. But I think about how Scott and I got married in September 2008. We moved into this house in August 2008. I will never forget, it was like a trifecta. And they always say this – three huge life things happen at the same time, really check your mental health. We moved in August, my aunt passed away from cancer in September, and we got married 28 days later. Moved, death, marriage, all in two months. That was a huge, huge two months for us. I just think of how we bought a house and we got married, but we planned the wedding before we bought the house type of thing. I donāt really remember us being super worried because we were combining incomes and had that already planned out.
Claire: And also, are you talking about a giant stock market crash in 2008?
Joy: Thatās true. That happened.
Claire: Also that, like the week after you got married.
Joy: Okay, so thatās a good show to watch if you want to just zone out. Lately, Iāve been really needing shows too where I donāt have to think much. Iāll do that with podcasts sometimes where Iām like, I canāt listen to something that I really need to be engaged. Letās do some quick follow-up questions from people who left some comments on past posts. āWhat are your garden plans for 2021, Claire?ā
Claire: Oh great, thank you for asking. Okay, so as a lot of you know, when we moved into this house – we live on a corner lot, and we took all of the sod out of the front corner of our yard. We have about, I donāt know, itās big, a big patch of dirt that weāve been doing mounded garden beds. So this year, our plan, which we havenāt really started moving on yet, which we really need to do because itās mid-March is to put in raised beds instead of just mounded beds. Which a raised bed actually has walls. Itās a structure. Versus a big pile of dirt. And the reason for that is just weed mitigation. So we want to do that. I think weāre going to do mostly vegetables. When we originally started the garden, it was completely flowers for the first two years. Last year, we did a mix of flowers and vegetables, and this year weāll probably do mostly vegetables with some flowers. Itās so fun to do the flowers because we do tons of zanies, which are good pollinators and theyāre really easy to grow. If youāre looking for a really colorful, really easy to grow, super pollinator friendly flower, pick zanies. Theyāre just so brightly colored.
Joy: Theyāre so pretty.
Claire: A lot of them are a variety called ācut and come again,ā which exactly what it sounds like. You can cut them and it will branch and grow back more, versus a tulip or something, which as soon as you cut it, itās just done.
Joy: Oh my God, my poor tulips.
Claire: I know. This is okay, though. Tulips love this type of weather.
Joy: Theyāre going to bounce back.
Claire: They are.
Joy: They were blooming, so maybe theyāre still going to pop out.
Claire: They will. Theyāll be fine. And then weāll probably also do some big sunflowers. We do a combo of branching sunflowers, which again is exactly what it sounds like, versus your traditional single sunflower where itās just like one stalk, one big head. The other type are called branching sunflowers. Sometimes they call them prairie sunflowers.
Joy: Those are pretty.
Claire: Theyāre beautiful. So we do a combination. The single, one tall sunflower, you tend to get more sunflower seeds because they tend to be bigger. We will get birds and squirrels into December who are still eating the sunflower seeds. So itās really fun. Not everyone wants to invite squirrels into their garden, but we love it. And also, this is a fun fact which we inadvertently found out. We also have pumpkin, squash, strawberries, blackberries, tomatoes. Most of the pumpkins and squash are what we worry about with the squirrels. And the sunflower seeds keep the birds and squirrels away from our other food because they would rather have the sunflowers seeds. Fun fact.
Joy: That is a fun fact.
Claire: If youāre looking for some natural pest mitigation in your garden, just do a big row of sunflowers and they will eat that instead.
Joy: Thatās good to know. I love how the big sunflowers, all of the sudden their head tilts and they drop the seeds.
Claire: I know, right.
Joy: Thatās so cool. Flowers are so cool.
Claire: So weāll still do that. I think this year the thing Iām most excited for is growing onions and potatoes that we can store and use next winter. It just feels so fun to be cutting up a potato in February and be like, āI grew this.ā Iām a pioneer basically.ā
Joy: I love it. I have a friend at work who gives me eggs from her chickens.
Claire: Oh yeah, I would love to have chickens.
Joy: Thatās the coolest thing. Every time, Iām like, āThank you. Thank you, Martha, the hen.ā
Claire: Yeah, right. We would love to have chickens. Our backyard isnāt quite big enough for it. We technically could, per the city. But we just wouldnāt have a very good spot to keep them. But one day I would really love to have chickens. And we used to live in a house on a property that had chickens, and it was so fun. Eat some eggs from right there. Doesnāt get any more local.
Joy: Okay, really quick want to back up about television really quick because someone asked about talking about Bridgerton. I have watched/fell asleep to one episode, and I canāt get into it still.
Claire: I havenāt even tried, which will shock none of you.
Joy: So hereās whatās going to happen. This is typical for me. Iāll get into it next year. It will just be the right time and place for me, and Iāll watch it and be like, āThis is a great show. I canāt believe I didnāt watch it.ā
Claire: Get a sinus whatever this summer and end up watching the whole thing or whatever.
Joy: Exactly, exactly. So not into it yet. Iām not saying it will never happen, but Iām not into the Bridgerton fanfare just yet. The guy that was on SNL who hosted was pretty hot though.
Claire: I know. Thatās the thing is itās soft porn, right? On Netflix.
Joy: Totally. Itās all hot people. Why not?
Claire: Why not?
Joy: Letās address this one too because I want to address and move. āHow do you move on from politics 2020?ā My answer is, you donāt move on because that really sucked. What Iāve noticed is Iām waking up being like, wow, Iām so glad that I donāt have to be angry every day. I was so angry, very angry. So I think what Iām doing now is trying to not be angry, or notice if Iām like – because Iāll see posts. People are still holding onto Trump 2020 and that will put me into a rage. But this probably slides nicely into just going off social media. What Iām doing is if I see stupid stuff or things where Iām just like, this is ignorant, Iāll move on instead of letting myself get angry because I think I did a lot of that with the politics of 2020. Even four years with Trump in office is I had so much anger about the hate that he fostered while in office. I think right now itās like, me being angry does nothing. So what Iām going to try to do is focus on the people who are doing good work and follow people who are trying to make the world a better place and be compassionate, thoughtful leaders who have a plan. Scott and I watched his address last week. Scott was like, āThat was amazing. Heās really doing a good job. His speech-writers are awesome.ā And he had symbols of unity. Even the hallway that he walked down was lined with all the flags from all 50 states. That is what we need. Little things like that that are making a huge difference. And his press secretary Jennifer Psaki is phenomenal. If you have not seen her speak or do a press conference, please just watch her because you will fall in love. Iām in love with her.
Claire: Press conferences are back.
Joy: Press conferences are back.
Claire: Normal things that we took for granted.
Joy: So Iām watching politics and not being angry, thatās my goal.
Claire: Yeah. And I also think, to me, moving on, if you have something to move on from, that probably means that that thing you just need to address head on at this point. Thereās not a lot of – how do I say this. I donāt think we typically think of politics as something we need to heal from. But I do think a lot of us have to give some time to have boundaries around it, to treat it like getting out of an abusive relationship. Or maybe āabusiveā is too strong of a word, but getting out of a dysfunctional relationship. What would you need to move forward after that and give yourself some of those same kinds of things? For me, I am not that engaged with politics right now. Iām engaged locally, and Iām engaged with the causes that are important to me around environmentalism and around anti-racism, but Iām not really paying that much attention into the day-to-day policies and day-to-day news around other types of things. Iāve picked, these are the things I am going to engage with, but I donāt have the motional space and capacity to be aware of all of the things all of the time. And sure, every single thing is related, of course. But thatās just kind of how Iāve had to draw some boundaries. And eventually over time, I will start following those press conferences again and start reading the news again. It was so stressful for me for so long that I just donāt do it.
Joy: So the thing that I want to be aware of too is that Iām not getting passive as a white person because we had such a racist a**hole in the office that we were trying so hard to be like this is not okay. Weāre donating and reading and consuming all the information to try to be helpful, and I found myself being like, now that we have a ānormal personā in the White House, Iāve found myself being more passive, which I donāt think is going to help people of color. So thatās something that Iām trying to be – inform yourself, of course, but be helpful and donāt just sit back and be like ānow weāre okay,ā because weāre not okay.
Claire: Weāre not okay, right. And thatās what I mean by Iām staying engaged in the biggest things. Weāve also talked about this. Not every single person can be engaged in every single topic. There is important work, and antiracism work to be done in every topic across every single thing. So find the thing that resonates with you that doesnāt feel stressful, that feels energizing, to actually participate in. Really dig into that and that can really help too.
Joy: Yep, absolutely. Last quick question is, āDo you use affirmations?ā I want to say you do not.
Claire: I mean, not like –
Joy: Iām good. Iām great. Iām wonderful.
Claire: I feel good, I feel great, I feel wonderful. Iām rubbing my temples like What About Bob?
Joy: I think about Stuart Smalley on SNL.
Claire: What?
Joy: Stuart Smalley on SNL?
Claire: No, thatās from What About Bob?
Joy: thatās from What About Bob? But the other one on SNL where heās like, āGosh darn it, people like me.ā I canāt remember the first part of it. You guys are all yelling it, but itās like –
Claire: I know.
Joy: My brain.
Claire: I donāt use them daily for everything. I have certain phrases. Like in a workout, Iāll use the āI can do hard things.ā Which I would like to point out, I have been saying āI can do hard thingsā before Glennon Doyle made it cool. But I appreciate that she made it cool.
Joy: Yeah, she did make it cool.
Claire: Yeah, āI can do hard things.ā Iām trying to think of any other ones. I donāt really feel like I have any one thing that I always turn back to.
Joy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Stuart Smalley. So for those of you who donāt know was played by Al Franken who before he was in politics was on SNL. But he would look in the mirror and be like, āIām good enough. Iām smart enough. Dog done it, people like me.ā He was kind of like this funny character that was about affirmations. I donāt have an affirmation. I try to take inspiration from the day. So this is silly, but if my Peloton instructors say something positive, Iām like, āIām going to think of that today.ā Or if I see something out in the world that made me happy, like sometimes I see butterflies flying around while Iām on my walk. I take inspiration from that. Just trying to be present and take one day at a time. I always try to think of that. I think it depends on the mood Iām in. If Iām in a crappy mood, then you just have to ride the wave.
Claire: Totally. Alright guys, well thank you for hanging in there with us for another week. We are actually going to have some guests coming up here in the next several weeks, TBD. But so youāll get a short, not break, but an addition of some new voices here in the next couple of months for a couple of episodes, which we are excited about. Like we talked about, itās just been so hard to get guests during COVID because people are so sick of being on Skype or on Zoom or whatever by the end of the day that itās been a lot to try and get people to schedule. So thatās why youāve gotten pretty much nothing but Joy and Claire for the last year. But weāre going to start mixing it back up again, which weāre really excited about. Whether you like it or not. So feel free to recommend a guest to us. Again, itās always helpful if you have a connection to that person. If thereās also somebody that you just think is great, we also love getting those suggestions. Itās harder for us to do anything about them because we donāt have a publicist, but you never know. Shoot us an email thisisjoyandclaire@gmail.com. Donāt forget to follow us on Instagram @joyandclaire_. Youāre welcome to follow us on Facebook. Weāre not really doing anything over there, so Iām probably going to stop bringing that up.
Joy: Welcome to get that going. If someone wants to run our Facebook page.
Claire: Welcome to get that going. Feel free to just email us any of your thoughts, any of your questions. Weād love to hear from you, and we normally get back to you within a couple of weeks at least.
Joy: Yeah.
Claire: And again, if youāve ever sent us an email and you were really hoping for a response and you didnāt get one, feel free to just –
Joy: Send it again.
Claire: Nudge that email right back into our inbox.
Joy: Nudge it.
Claire: Alright guys, well have a great week, and we will talk to you next week.
Joy: Bye.
Claire: Bye.
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: Google Podcasts | Spotify | Stitcher | RSS | More
Leave a Reply