67: Thanks Mr. Mason

March 25, 2021

The 90’s memory lane, Delia’s, Joy’s favorite Avon mascara, Claire’s overnight getaway, life post-quarantine, and more Joe Rogan/Mat Fraser episode recap.


email: thisisjoyandclaire@gmail.com

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This is Joy & Claire Episode 67: Thanks Mr. Mason

Episode Date: March 25, 2021, 2020

Audio Length: 50:14 minutes 

Joy: Hey guys, this is Joy.

Claire: And this is Claire.

Joy: And this is Wayne’s World.

Claire: Oh my gosh, if only.

Joy: What did you think of their Super Bowl commercial? Did you watch that?

Claire: No, I did not.

Joy: It was just a really cute Wayne’s World commercial. It’s like you have that nostalgia from watching Wayne’s World for the first time, but obviously they’re a lot older and you’re like, wow, they’re so much older.

Claire: They are getting quite old.

Joy: You are very aware of your age when you’re like, I remember watching that movie. You were a lot younger, so this was a very different experience for me. I believe it was 7th grade when this movie came out for me, so you would have been a little tiny kid. 

Claire: I’m looking to see what year it came out, the original.

Joy: Yeah. Because I remember, this was such a big deal. I didn’t have cable growing up, so I didn’t get to watch anything on cable. Obviously, this was an SNL skit, but I didn’t watch a lot of SNL. I didn’t really get to see all of the fun shows growing up, but when Wayne’s World came out, the movie came out, it was such a big deal that I remember going – this would never happen today – but I remember going to the theatre and sitting on the floor because there were no chairs.

Claire: Oh my gosh.

Joy: Somehow, they oversold, and we watched Wayne’s World just sitting on the floor. It was so funny.

Claire: That sounds amazing. It came out in 1992. I was 4 years old for most of 1992. 

Joy: Yeah, that would be right when I started 7th grade… maybe 8th grade. Anyway.

Claire: I watched Wayne’s World a lot as a kid. It was my favorite movie in my teenage years and in college, so I’ve seen it so many times. I absolutely love it.

Joy: The reason why we opened with that is before we started recording, we were doing the 3-2-1-point thing where he… it’s on Wayne’s World. You guys know what I’m talking about?

Claire: I hope you do. If not –

Joy: 3-2-1…

Claire: Guys, you’re nodding. “If Benjamin was an ice cream flavor, he’d be pralines and dick.”

Joy: And dick.

Claire: That’s one of my favorite lines. Such a good one. “Benjamin is nobody’s friend.”

Joy: My gosh. So you watched that as a kid, or you were older?

Claire: When I got a little older. I was really little when it came out. Then it’s moment kind of came back around when I was in high school.

Joy: I really appreciate movies that have that return of popularity. I wonder if the younger generation, were you really into Tommy Boy when that came out? Because you were probably younger for that too. 

Claire: Tommy Boy was my age group. I was a little young for that, but I was old enough for all the boys in my late elementary school class to be doing it.

Joy: I think I said this before. My friends in high school worked at a movie theatre. I kid you not, every weekend when the theatres closed, we would get to go into the theatre all by ourselves, and we would watch Tommy Boy. So I think I watched that movie about a hundred times the year of 1995.

Claire: That’s an amazing memory.

Joy: It’s a great memory. It’s a great memory. 

Claire: My twin brother and I always watched movies that were way too old for us because my half-brothers are 7 and 10 years older and they would always babysit us. We also were always watching movies that were probably not age appropriate whatsoever. But my parents, they probably just weren’t paying attention. I definitely feel like Mike Myers in particular, and I guess Dana Carvey. You see pictures of him now and you’re like, you’re definitely getting older.

Joy: Yeah, and Tia Carrere. What was her name? She was just amazing. Everyone was so –

Claire: I just think it’s like when you have those iconic characters in your mind, it can be so shocking when you see a celebrity in real life and you’re like, “Wait a minute, you don’t look the way you did in 1992.” 

Joy: Yes, it’s like burned in your memory.

Claire: It’s like when you see a kid that you knew as a baby and then you see them in high school and you’re like no, no, no, no, no.

Joy: And I think Tia Carrere – I’m switching the conversation slightly to body image because I remember – you know at that age, you’re just not aware of – I should say my age in 1992, that was 7th/8th grade for me. Being aware of this bombshell body and being like, how do you get a body like that? I thought somehow you could get a body like that. You could grow those boobs.

Claire: You could just send in a postcard for it, and it would arrive in the mail.

Joy: Eventually I could look like that in a dress, and that is just kind of where things all go wrong in our thinking. No, no, no, that’s not how it works. That’s not how biology works. You are going to have larger shoulders, and that’s okay, Joy.

Claire: I remember thinking that about wanting black hair. The only reason is because I had a catalog, and the girl that had this outfit on that I really liked had black hair. And I was like, well I want to look like that. I want black hair.

Joy: Exactly like her.

Claire: I told my mom, “I want black hair.” And she was like, “You can’t just have black hair.” I was like, “Why not?” 

Joy: Well you could look like Gwen Stefani.

Claire: I vividly remember this conversation, and I probably was 7. That was the first time that I was like, “I want to look like that person.” Like people just choose, right? I can just decide, that’s how I want to look.

Joy: And yeah, that’s where we start the comparison trap. I want to look like that. I want to look like Gwen Stefani with my microbuns.

Claire: Yeah, exactly. That one though was clearly attainable, and I nailed it. So I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Joy: I think you posted a picture of that one year, didn’t you?

Claire: Recently, I reposted it on our Instagram stories. 

Joy: So good, so good.

Claire: It was a good one.

Joy: How did your friends react when that look happened?

Claire: They thought it was so cool.

Joy: Of course they did.

Claire: I don’t know, somebody who knew me in middle school is probably like, “No Claire, we did not think you were cool. We knew that we just had to let it happen.” I don’t remember any negative feedback whatsoever from anybody about my microbuns and my rhinestone Hindi cultural appropriation beads all over my face.

Joy: You were too young to know better. Now you know better. Could you imagine doing that now? Oh my gosh.

Claire: No, I literally cannot. I cannot imagine Gwen Stefani doing it either. It was a whole thing. But yeah, looking back, I feel like that’s the beauty of middle school. For me, at least, I didn’t start to care quite as much what other people thought. But for the most part, I was like, “This looks awesome. No one can tell me otherwise.”

Joy: I would love to time travel back to meet that Claire.

Claire: I mean, I don’t feel like I’m that different. Other than the fact that I just don’t have that [00:06:51.00] longed in my hair in the morning. It’s not that I care more about what other people think. It’s that I personally care less about spending that much time on my hair.

Joy: That’s fair. That was a good memory lane trip. Do you remember dELiA*s? Did you get the magazine dELiA*s?

Claire: I was obsessed with dELiA*s.

Joy: Were you really?

Claire: I feel like dELiA*s might even have been a little late for you.

Joy: It was late. It was when I was in college, when I was just on the end of being like I don’t know if I could pull of that look. But I was still young enough to be interested.

Claire: It was late middle school or early high school for me. I was prime –

Joy: Perfect demographic.

Claire: Prime dELiA*s. dELiA*s, and there was one other one and I’m blanking. Alloy?

Joy: Yeah. If people don’t know what we’re talking about, it was a magazine where you could just – this was pre-internet.

Claire: It was a catalog.

Joy: Yeah, it was a catalog of cute fashion. Think Reality Bites. Reality Bites is like the exact magazine catalog.

Claire: It was so unbelievably 90’s. Everything about it. Bucket hats, bell bottoms, the Dill tankinis. I loved dELiA*s so much. And there was another one called Alloy that I also loved that is apparently not around anymore. I just Googled it. It’s less iconic than dELiA*s.

Joy: Wow, those are the platform –

Claire: Yes.

Joy: Dang.

Claire: All I wanted was those platform Steve Madden candles.

Joy: Okay, I had those platform Steve –

Claire: Everyone had those sandals.

Joy: They were the slides, and they were all platform. There wasn’t heal. It was just flat as a pancake.

Claire: Just straight up platform. You were just walking on a 3.5” wedge of plastic everywhere you went. Not a wedge.

Joy: Not a wedge, just a platform. Oh my God, dELiA*s. So good. So good. And the makeup, I think that’s where I got my glitter obsession. And the chokers.

Claire: Yes.

Joy: It’s so good, oh my gosh.

Claire: I also remember the first time I ever went big on eye shadow. I bought it at the Icing, which was the cooler spin off brand from Claire’s for the sophisticated tween. And I had this frosty blue eyeshadow, and I remember just putting it everywhere. My friend came over, and I opened the door in my frosty blue eye shadow, and she was like, “Claire, you’re wearing way too much eye shadow.” This is the first time that had ever happened. I was like, “Shut up, Jessica, you don’t know.”

Joy: You don’t know me and my talents.

Claire: You don’t know me and my frosty blue eye shadow. 

Joy: It’s so good.

Claire: You weren’t supposed to notice somehow.

Joy: Do you remember your first makeup?

Claire: I mean, that had to be up there.

Joy: I’ll never forget. Did you need permission from your parents to wear makeup.

Claire: No, that’s the other thing. So you have to remember, I have –

Joy: A lot of siblings. 

Claire: So many siblings, and by far I was the most well-behaved one. So I think my parents were like, –

Joy: She’s good.

Claire: Anything that I was doing was so low on the priority list to manage that my parents did not care what I wore… they didn’t have any –

Joy: Hence the microbuns. 

Claire: Hence the microbuns. They didn’t care what I wore. They didn’t care if I wore makeup or not. They didn’t care what I did with my hair. Every once in a while, I’d call my mom from the mall because I needed – my mom would just give me a blank check to go to the mall.

Joy: [gasping]

Claire: Let me get something straight. For a single item. To go buy a t-shirt at Lucky or something.

Joy: Oh, I was like, [laughing]

Claire: Because one blank check, you can only check out of one store, right?

Joy: That’s fair. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Claire: So I’d go buy the Tommy Hilfiger t-shirt at Lucky that says Tommy Girl on it.

Joy: Oh my gosh, yeah.

Claire: But they just didn’t care at all. Never in my life did I have to ask permission for that type of thing.

Joy: See, I was kind of the same way. My parents really trusted my brother and I, but there was definitely a moment where my mom got me makeup for Valentine’s Day when I was in 8th grade from Avon.

Claire: Love it.

Joy: Got to love it. It was really great because she got me the best mascara and blush. It was kind of this blessing of, “You can wear makeup now.” So I totally remember that. I was so excited. I thought that was the cutest thing. It still warms my heart thinking that when she got me this makeup bag for Valentine’s Day. 

Claire: That’s so cute. 

Joy: I can finally wear makeup. Which, by the way, Avon – I don’t know if they still have it. Anyone out there, please tell me. Or you know what, I can easily Google this. Avon used to have the best mascara. It was called Wash Off Water Proof. It was the best mascara because it was kind of like the tubing stuff, but not the tubes that are super tubey.

Claire: You can still buy it for the fair price of $10.

Joy: It’s still on Avon?

Claire: avon.com, Wash Off Water Proof, $10.

Joy: It’s the best mascara.

Claire: It has 2,500 reviews.

Joy: It is so easy to take off. I’m not kidding, I loved it. I wore it all through college. I would always order it through Avon. Little known secret, the best mascara. Avon Wash Off Water Proof.

Claire: You should get it and see if it holds up to your current day –

Joy: I really should. I’m going to write that down.

Claire: I’m going to text you this link right now.

Joy: Okay. I’m so excited. I love that I crowd source things and then I’m like, “I could just Google that.”

Claire: I know.

Joy: As we’re recording, it’s hard to Google and talk at the same time. But that was really fun when I got to wear makeup for the first time. I don’t remember – I was really, really conservative with my clothing. And especially because I went to a pretty conservative high school where people didn’t wear booty shorts. I guess we did for cheer and stuff. But you know, in Arizona you’re always wearing shorts so it’s not a big deal to be wearing shorts. But I never wore crop tops or even bikinis. I was really weird about wearing a bikini as a kid and even as a teenager. So one pieces were my comfort zone. I guess this is where I show my age where it’s like, kids these days, they’re just posting naked selfies of themselves on the internet. I’m so glad I’m not a kid right not.

Claire: I’m so glad the internet was not around when I was that age.

Joy: So glad. So glad. But you know what, I’m sure the generation before us said the same thing about something where they’re like, “I’m so glad that this wasn’t around when I was a kid.”

Claire: Three-way calling.

Joy: [laughing] I just survived my three-way call attack.

Claire: Oh my goodness.

Joy: So wait. I have a question. This came up the other day where it’s like, I don’t know if I should air this on the podcast – but did you ever steal anything, or did you do any kind of criminal activity as a kid?

Claire: No, honestly, I didn’t. And I feel like-

Joy: Like a rebellious phase or anything.

Claire: This is like in Miss Congeniality. “I did. I stole red panties. My mom wouldn’t let me have them. She said they were Satan’s panties.” That’s not real. That’s not a story from my childhood. That’s from Miss Congeniality, in case anyone doesn’t know what I’m talking about.

Joy: Yes. Any law enforcement listening.

Claire: And he’s like, “Why does that sound familiar?” No, I didn’t. And I think it was a combination of – I don’t know, I never had a rebellious streak. I never felt like I had anything to prove. I think it’s because I just watched all my siblings just be a giant mess all the time, and I was like, I don’t need to be a giant mess. They are being a giant mess for me. I do remember one time when I was in middle school – this is hysterical to think about this. It might even have been late elementary school. My best friend Nichole Koch whose last name is spelled like my current-day last name except pronounced “Cotch.” In case anyone out there doesn’t know this, my last name is pronounced “Cook.” But because she was my best friend growing up and her last name was pronounced “Cotch,” it took me like ten years to pronounce my name correctly in my own head. I’d be like, “Claire Cotch, nope.” So she and I, I remember one time, we lived on opposite sides of the same neighborhood, and we went under this little walking bridge into this little concrete tunnel and just sat in there and just yelled curse words.

Joy: No way.

Claire: And I just remember thinking, we’re going to get down there and –

Joy: Someone’s going to hear us.

Claire: Yeah. And I’m sure even if you heard two girls hiding under a bridge yelling curse words and then giggling –

Joy: That’s the most adorable thing in the world, and I’d be like, “Can I join you? This is the cutest.”

Claire: I would text you and be like, “You’ll never guess what I just heard.” It was so cute I’m sure, but we thought we were just such rebels. That’s the closest thing I ever came to doing something rebellious. What about you?

Joy: Mom, if you’re listening… 

Claire: Joy, you’re 43 years old.

Joy: I know, I can’t disappoint my mom. I can’t disappoint my mom. She would just laugh at this. She has stories too. She always tells her stories of cruising Santa Monica boulevard because she grew up in LA, just hanging out with the softball team. Oh my gosh, it’s so cute how she talks about her rebellious streak. Anyway, so I have two. When I was in 6th grade, I started experimenting with curse words. Like, you know that time in your life when you’re just kind of experimenting with how it feels to be like, “Shit!” when you’re a kid.

Claire: Yes, that’s exactly why I hid under a bridge and screamed curse words.

Joy: Yes. You’re like, this is a new thing for me. Let’s be honest, being a kid and a teenager is the most fun thing in the world that you’re so wanting to be over. But part of me wants to be like, stay young, it’s so fun. But when I was in 6th grade, I would write letters. I’m sure they still do this. Please tell me they still do this. Like, pass notes back and forth with their friends.

Claire: It’s texting now. They text.

Joy: I know, but it makes me sad. Please write a note. I want to pass notes. So I was passing notes with my friend, Jennifer Whiting. We would write notes to each other that were filthy language, just to be rebellious. I don’t know what we were talking about, but it was just filthy language. I remember sitting in the lunch room and someone got the note. I guess she was passing the note or something, and I think the principal got a hold of it. I thought my life was over. Over. I was like, “That’s it. My life is over. I’m going to die.” And he called me into his office, Mr. Mason. He could not have been more kind. He was like, “I know you’re just experimenting at this age, but I just want you to know” – and I was just bawling. It was just the sweetest thing because I was crying and he was so compassionate, and I’ll never, ever forget that. He was understanding. “I know this is a time in your life when you’re experimenting.” He knew I was a good kid, and I was so upset. He was like, “If you need to, just walk the halls for a while.” Because in Arizona, everything’s outside.

Claire: Because you were sobbing hysterically.

Joy: Yeah. So I was walking the breezeway. “Just for the afternoon.” He’s like “Calm down. Get your breath. And then when you’re ready, you can go back to class.” I will never forget that kindness. He could easily have been like, “How dare you? You don’t use this language.” And I considered him kind of intimidating. He was a very tall-statured man that had a serious face. I thought, my life is over. He wasn’t going to be understanding, and I will never forget the kindness of that.

Claire: And here you were, couldn’t even speak through sobs. He was probably like, my gosh, this girl. Of all of the things, that is so funny. You were reacting like you’d just been caught with a locker full of drugs. 

Joy: Right. Like I’d murdered someone. Because the thought at that age too –

Claire: They just found a dead body in your locker. Nope, Joy wrote some cusswords.

Joy: Yeah. And at that age, too. You still have that carry over of not wanting to disappoint anybody. Or being seen as a bad kid. Or disappointing your parents. I’m like, “Oh my God, my mom’s going to kill me.” He never told my parents. I think I told my parents this story at some point. But he never called my parents, so I didn’t get in trouble at home. That was just so, so cute. And then I went through a phase in early college where I smoked cigarettes for a hot minute. It wasn’t a daily thing, but I definitely had the smoking at parties and hiding at my house sometimes. I’d go to the side of the house to go smoke outside my parents’ house, because I lived at home in college. And I’m like, how did my parents not know that I was smoking sporadically.

Claire: If you come inside from smoking a cigarette, your whole-body smells like cigarettes.

Joy: 100%. Smart Joy thinking, “I’m totally hiding this.” It was just really funny. But yeah, I don’t think I had a super rebellious streak. It’s really funny because I considered myself – man, even to this day, I am very much the sober person at the party. Not that I don’t drink, but even in college I had a rule that I wouldn’t drink during the week because I was like, “I have to get my schoolwork done” and I was so terrified of failing any classes. And I knew my parents were helping to pay for me to go to college that I was like, “There’s no way that I’m throwing this money away.” I was just so scared of not doing well in college, so I had this very strict rule with myself that if I had any grades slipping whatsoever that I would stop drinking completely.

Claire: Wow.

Joy: Yeah. Like, on the weekends when you would start drinking in college, it was almost like an every Friday and Saturday night thing. And I’ll never forget that. My rule is, if grades start dropping, I’m immediately shutting down the partying. And then the way that I made sense of that too was absolutely no partying during the week. So now, even in my 20’s, I think back and it’s so funny how I kind of carried that one because I never got totally wasted at parties, I was pretty under control, I always got home before midnight. My friends in my 20’s always called me Cinderella because I would always leave before midnight and never stayed up really, really late. Because I guess too, I hate the feeling of sleeping in late and being groggy the rest of the day. Like if I went to bed really, really late and I woke up super late, I would always feel like crap the rest of the day. Like if I had been drinking out that long. So it’s just so funny how these rules that I made up for myself that I was just like – and now I go to bed at like 8 o’clock. So I just really was – like sleigh ride to 40 is actually a real thing, and it starts in your 20’s.

Claire: So Joy and I were texting to day because I was trying to find a spare dose of a vaccine. We thought there might be one, so I was going to go ask. I was like, I’m not worried about getting the vaccine. I’m nervous about asking. Why can’t I be like, “Hi, do you have any spare vaccine doses?” And Joy was like, “Yeah, no I get it. I I’m such a rule follower, it would freak me out too.” I ended up asking. They didn’t have any. By the way, if anyone is worried about doing that, it was a very pleasant experience. They were very, very nice. “Oh yeah, go right through there and ask.” And the lady was like, “I’m so sorry, we don’t have any today, but always check back. Sometimes we’re looking.” So you know. All that –

Joy: Yeah, they’re always very nice. Even at the clinic I work at, people come by all the time. And it’s not a lot because most people have to have an appointment, but you just never know. It’s not to say swarm places asking for extras, but at this point we’re moving closer to where everyone is going to be eligible to get the vaccine. I think more places – I’m not speaking for every state, every facility – is looking to vaccinate people. So if they have extras, they want to put shots into arms.

Claire: All that to say that just the asking, I felt like I was breaking the rules.

Joy: It’s so scary, totally.

Claire: I was like, I don’t want them to think I’m being greedy. I don’t want them to think I’m being an ambulance chaser.

Joy: Yeah, absolutely. I totally get that. I still have a hard time asking for things if I feel like I’m overstepping boundaries or, I don’t know what it is but I get what you’re saying.

Claire: Right. You don’t want to be a bother.

Joy: Be a bother, yeah, for sure.

Claire: Honestly, how many of us have done that where we’ve kept ourselves from doing something that was totally benign because we didn’t want to be a bother.

Joy: Even something as simple at a restaurant as sending a plate back.

Claire: Have you ever sent a plate back?

Joy: Nope.

Claire: I haven’t either. My dad does it sometimes.

Joy: John Hay. Of course, John Hay. He’s like, “This croissant is not crispy.”

Claire: I would send something back. The only time I’ve ever sent something back, and this has maybe happened twice, is if truly they brought out the wrong thing.

Joy: Right, like the 100% wrong thing.

Claire: Right. Like, I ordered a burger and you just brought me a bowl of spaghetti. This is incorrect. But even if something comes out and it’s like, oh I wanted a certain type of cheese and it’s the wrong type of cheese, or I ordered a side salad and they brought me fries. I would just eat it.

Joy: Yep, yep. Something pretty minor. So right now the only time I think I would for sure send it back is if it had dairy on it. I can’t eat dairy right now. But other than that, I’m like, whatever, I’ll just eat this.

Claire: It’s fine. It’s not toxic.

Joy: it’s not going to kill you. Anyways, how was your date night? Tell us about Brandon’s birthday getaway.

Claire: Yeah. So this past weekend, so Brandon’s birthday was Pi Day, 3.14, March 14. And last weekend, we had a giant snow storm so we didn’t plan anything, so this weekend we went down and we stayed the night at the Crawford Hotel which is in Union Station in downtown Denver, and we went to Tavernetta, which is a really super delicious fancy restaurant that’s within a one-minute walk of Union Station.

Joy: Which is brilliant. I love that you did that.

Claire: And then, there’s a Snooze in Union Station, and if you stay at the hotel you can get room service Snooze.

Joy: That is so cool. I did not know that.

Claire: Literally, that was the main reason. Because I was looking at that hotel and a couple others in the area, and that hotel was a little bit more expensive. I was like, “I should stay at the other one, it’s not quite as expensive.” And I was like, “Yeah, but I can’t get Snooze room service in that one.” I don’t have to wait for Snooze, heck yes. I will, sign me up.

Joy: Everyone who doesn’t know, Snooze is such a popular breakfast joint in Denver.

Claire: And they have them in Colorado. They have a couple in Southern California.

Joy: Yeah, I think they started in SoCal. No, they started here, and then they moved to SoCal, right?

Claire: I think the other way around. But yeah, any time you go, unless you get there at 7 in the morning, it’s an hour wait.

Joy: Hour wait for sure. So getting room service from Snooze is [sigh]. And your photo looked like it was delicious. What’d you get? Eggs Benedict.

Claire: Okay, so I got the Eggs Benedict, but you can get two different types. They have like five types of Eggs Benedict. So you can get a half and half.

Joy: [gasps]

Claire: Right? I know. And then Brandon always gets the breakfast pot pie, which is this giant puff pastry boat filled with sausage gravy.

Joy: I love how Brandon can just eat all that and then an hour later he’s like, “I’m hungry.”

Claire: Yeah, and then we go downstairs to get coffee and he’s like, “Are you going to get a snack?” And I’m like, “No, I’m not going to get a snack. I just ate breakfast.”

Joy: I love his ability to just put down snacks.

Claire: Unbelievable amounts of food, that human. Miles also has to have a bedtime snack every night. I was texting one of my friends about it. He’ll have a whole banana and some crackers and cheese and some turkey. It’s not just, oh can I have a couple of bites of something.

Joy: A cookie or a cracker.

Claire: No, he eats a whole meal. And one of my friends, I was texting something about it. And she was like, “Of course your child needs a bedtime meal.” I was like, yeah, you got to get those calories in.

Joy: That’s Brandon’s child.

Claire: Brandon’s child. Hollow leg, as my grandma would say.

Joy: Hollow leg. So it was fun.

Claire: Yeah, we had a good time. I would recommend it. 

Joy: You would recommend which part?

Claire: I would recommend taking some time for yourself. I feel like after this past year, it’s hard to want to do that and it’s hard to feel like you deserve it. I feel like we all get into this, again, comparative suffering of well I’m not going to take time for myself because not everyone can take time for themselves and I don’t have it as bad as everyone else. This money should go towards anything else other than just taking care of yourselves. We were lucky enough that we had the funds to be able to do something like this. I highly recommend going and spend a whole – especially if you’re a parent, I feel like it’s been especially hard this year to justify taking time away from your kids. Also, it was the first time we had left Miles with my mom since before the pandemic. Because now she’s fully vaccinated, my stepdad is, and so is my grandpa. I posted about this on Instagram stories, but a lot of people were able to keep their parents in their bubble. Like I know you’ve been able to see your parents and stay with them a couple of times. 

Joy: Right, because they live in the middle of nowhere, yeah.

Claire: Right. And we just weren’t able to do that because Brandon’s job was so high risk for exposure, and my grandpa is so high risk for getting COVID. He’s 95. And then my own dad has a history of lung cancer, so we just weren’t able to see – and we live 40 minutes from my mom and 15 minutes from my dad. In normal times, we see them all the time. And especially my mom. She normally comes over every weekend.

Joy: I was going to say, you were seeing her at least once a week if not more.

Claire: At least once a week and sending the kids over there all the time. So to lose that so abruptly, I don’t think I realized how much I really missed it until all of the sudden we were able to bring Miles back over there, and I was like oh my gosh. They needed it too. 

Joy: For sure.

Claire: A big thing about a lot of kids this year is, especially somebody like Miles, he’s the older sibling. He used to go to school full time and now we barely even enrolled him in preschool at all this year. He really has gotten very little undivided attention, and that’s really hard for a kid that age. He needs undivided attention, and it’s so hard to give it to him when you also have a two-year-old in the picture. It was really awesome for him to get to stay with her. We didn’t send Evie over there because, first of all, we decided to keep her with Maxine – I’m so glad we have that option. But on the other side of that coin is that Evie hasn’t been out of the house in a year and I don’t think she would have slept in my mom’s house.

Joy: Yeah, that’s true.

Claire: Anyway.

Joy: I’m so glad Miles had that too because I know he and your mom have a special relationship too.

Claire: Yeah, they really do.

Joy: Yeah.

Claire: So it was so nice, and a lot of people responded to my Instagram story and they were like, “This gives me so much hope.” A lot of other people were in that same boat where they’re really, really close with their parents and used to see them all the time, and then very abruptly just stopped being able to do that and haven’t seen them in a year. We are really almost there.

Joy: Yeah, we’re almost there. It made me think too about how only we can say what decision is best for our family and for ourselves. I think the only time I would say, “Um, don’t do that” is when I see huge crowds in Florida. Or even that news story in Boulder. I’m sure people didn’t see that nationally, but there was this huge story –

Claire: Student riot.

Joy: Huge student riot. Huge party and there’s tons of people in masked crowds. It’s kind of like, yeah, you probably shouldn’t do that. But the decisions that we make – and we’ve talked about this before about making decisions to travel in a pandemic and the judgement that comes with that. But at the end of the day, I do feel like people just need to make the decisions and hopefully they’re putting some thought into it. But I see now how hard it is to just make a simple decision where you used to just be like, “Oh yeah, let’s go on a trip.” Now we have to have this huge evaluation around it, which can be really hard, and weighting the pros and cons. But what I was thinking about lately as well is how hard it is. Two things. One, it’s really hard for me – any time I listen to a podcast or go back and listen to an old podcast, I realize that I can’t listen to anything pre-pandemic where it’s a live interview where they’re just talking about life and it’s just normal life. There’s something about that that really bothers me that I’m like, we had no idea what was coming. Kind of like that Marriage or Mortgage episode where they taped it right before the pandemic hit. That’s really hard for me because that’s just so far removed from that and it’s hard for me to not see life now without this huge pandemic that affected our lives. The second thing that’s been on my mind is how I am very scared, and I feel like a lot of people will relate to this. I’m very scared of when things go back to normal because I feel like I’m going to have this huge emotional letdown that I don’t think I know it coming. I could easily see myself being in a restaurant with my husband where people are around, and I’m going to be having dinner and just start crying. To be like, wow, this is so normal. I miss being in a crowd. I wouldn’t put it past me to go up to strangers at a table and be like, “Can I hug you?” I just want to hug strangers. “I’m sorry to interrupt. Can I hug you?” Those types of things. Now that we’re sort of seeing this move towards everyone being vaccinated – and I know there’s variants and there’s worry about that, but I think the collective sigh of relief is coming of being able to say we’re almost out of this pandemic and that we hope to be – I listened to Biden’s address a couple of weeks ago and he talked about being back to normal or at least being able to be with our loved ones on the 4th of July and being able to have that type of normalcy – feels like “Oh my gosh, we’re so excited,” but the emotion that will come with that I think is pretty heavy. And at least for me, I worry about that because I’m just like, oh my gosh, am I going to break down and lose my shit? Probably, and that’s okay.

Claire: I’m not a big emoter, and I still have felt that way. We dropped Miles off. I didn’t get emotional, but I definitely felt like this was a milestone. I wasn’t ready for this to feel so impactful. I remember when Brandon got vaccinated. I very well think that I might cry when I get vaccinated. I think that because we fell into this pandemic so abruptly, we didn’t have time to process the things that we were losing. And of course, a lot of us have had – I know I certainly have and you certainly have – these various moments throughout the past year when you have these little miniature breaking points. But I still don’t think that any of those have been a complete catharsis of all of these things that we lost. And I think part of that is not fully realizing what we lost until we get it back. Because it went away so quickly that I don’t think we really realize that that’s gone. And then when we get it back, it’s like I didn’t even realize how much I needed that. A great example is what I was talking about a couple weeks ago about being at CrossFit Roots for that first Open workout. The music was playing, there were people everywhere. It was still distanced. It still felt safe. But this energy, that Friday Night Lights energy. I had no idea how much I had missed this busy energy. And it really did almost feel emotion. Like, wow, I can’t believe that something like this that I knew that I enjoyed it, but I completely took it for granted. That being here and walking into this room. Hearing the music playing, hearing the barbells hitting the ground, hearing the X, Y, Z. 

Joy: Barbells hitting the ground.

Claire: Right? 

Joy: It’s the best sound.

Claire: It really is.

Joy: It’s the best sound, yeah.

Claire: So I don’t know, I think we’re all going to have those moments.

Joy: Yeah. I know that there was a time when we had that initial discussion about going back to normal and we’ve been through this whole year of disruption and upset and abnormally. I know this has changed all of us, and we will never be the same again. That’s not a bad thing necessarily, but I think now we can see that light that we’re moving towards of opening back up again and what that means and how we’re going to approach that. Some people just go back to normal, and that’s fine. I’m not one of those people. I think I’ll take a lot of emotion with it and just kind of being like, wow, what did we just go through. It’s almost like a loss too. We are just in survival mode. Survival mode in the sense that we’re just kind of moving forward because we just have to do what’s in front of us. Once we get out of that, it could really take a toll on some of us emotionally. Just be aware of that too.

Claire: I think these little pieces that come back, I think the other component of that is that when it did first go away, we kind of were all like, “Oh, it’s going to be a couple of weeks.” And then it’s just kind of that moving target this whole time. Oh well, by the fall it will be okay. Okay well, by the first of the year. Okay well… even I’m thinking this July 4th target, I don’t want to get myself thinking.

Joy: We don’t even want to get our hopes up.

Claire: Right. Because I think that’s part of what has made it so hard is being in the middle of it and truly not knowing what the deadline is. If you had told all of us, “Okay, a year from today you’re still going to be doing this,” I think we would have treated that whole first couple of weeks a lot differently. I was just seeing that this past weekend was the one-year anniversary of Tiger King coming out. It was like, this is the true pandemic anniversary. But guys, that feels like it happened a hundred years ago.

Joy: A hundred years ago. I mean, we got Cadet almost a year ago, coming up on a year in April, and that’s so crazy to think about just because she was truly our pandemic project. I was just like, “Oh my gosh, it’s so fun to have a puppy in quarantine. Just such a good distraction.” And I’ll never forget that too, but yeah, it feels like ages ago. Ages ago. And how a year ago, if you would have told us this, we would have been like, “Whatever. No way.” And it also probably would have really dampened our souls.

Claire: In a way, I’m glad we didn’t know that because I think it would have felt so much more intent of like, “Oh my gosh, you mean I’m not going to see my mom for a year,” that type of thing. But I just think that’s made it so much harder also.

Joy: Yeah. And I don’t want to get my hopes up either for July, but dare I say I trust this leadership and I don’t think they would put something out like that if they didn’t really know what the plan was. But as a side note, I want to circle back to something I said. The last episode was about being angry and that anger doesn’t help. And as I was thinking about that a little bit more, I was like actually anger helps a lot sometimes. And so you can turn anger into some productivity. Not to say that you should stay in your anger, but I took a lot of anger from 2020 about the administration and I was so, so angry and wanted to blame. I think, rightfully so, there’s times where you’re like, if you’re the freaking president of the United States, do something. There’s a level of anger around that that I think about a lot. You could argue, yes, Trump set all this stuff up so that Biden could put it into place. But I’m like, yeah, but I don’t think he would have had a plan like this. He just didn’t have it in him to be this organized and structured. He was too like, “Well, everybody gets to do what they want” type of thing. I’m like, you can’t do that in a pandemic. You can’t be that person in a pandemic. We need organization. I’m thinking a lot about how if I feel those angry feelings that I can turn that into something productive. Because I think there’s been a lot of times in my life too, especially as a woman, where you’re not supposed to be angry or you’re supposed to get rid of your anger or angry isn’t attractive or whatever the crap that is put on us said. I’m just like, no. If I need to be angry, I’m going to freaking be angry and at least turn that into some type of movement.

Claire: There was a thought. I had it, and it went away, and hopefully it will come back. I agree. I think anger, it’s also just the context.

Joy: So speaking of anger, can I play a snippet of the Joe Rogan episode. Are we allowed to do that? We can?

Claire: No, I don’t think we can. No.

Joy: Really?

Claire: No. That’s copyrighted material. All of our audio is copyrighted material.

Joy: Oh, dang it. Okay. So I will just briefly then review the second half of the Joe Rogan interview with Mat Fraser. I posted this on our stories. I posted this on our stories right after we recorded our episode from last week, so it wasn’t in last week’s episode. I had only listened to the first half of it. I promise guys, I will listen to whole things from now on. For some reason, I was just like, “Three hours, I can’t do it.” And Joe Rogan talked a little bit about – and I’m paraphrasing, so go back and listen to it. It’s about the two-hour mark, so if you just want to fast-forward two hours. First of all, I don’t like when people talk about their personal experience of having COVID when they are just dismissing it because for example, Mat Fraser’s like, “Yeah, I just had a cold and I was working out every day.” And I’m like, okay. So that is not everyone’s experience. It’s fine if you’re like, “Oh, it was fine. I got it and I healed, and I was fine.” But to just make it sound like it was this easy thing that you got over, that’s so anecdotal. And for you to have this huge platform, millions of listeners –

Claire: The way that they say it a lot of times is more like, “COVID as a whole is no big deal. I only got a head cold.”

Joy: Exactly, exactly. I think because I know that that is where they were coming from too, that made me very angry where I was like, stop making it sound like this passive things that thousands and thousands and hundreds of thousands of people died from COVID-19. Why are you being like, “I just got a cold, and I feel kind of tired but I was able to work out every day” made me just want to rage. And then the producer chimes in and was like, “Yeah, I didn’t really get sick either.” It’s like, okay fine, are we going to sit here and talk about COVID is no big deal. And then they kind of go into this weight stigma, fat shaming where they’re talking about people who are unhealthy. He made a comment that Mat Fraser didn’t get sick because he was so healthy. I’m like, well that’s false because plenty of people who are very healthy got COVID and died. And so they started talking about this health thing and how people who are unhealthy are more at risk. Are these facts? Where are you getting this information from? They kind of started going off on this tangent that I did not appreciate, especially with Joe Rogan being the huge platform that he is, that I’m like if you’re going to talk about COVID and if you’re going to make these statements when millions of people are listening, have your facts straight. That made me rage so bad, especially about the health stuff, about people who are overweight that need to lose weight in order to not die from COVID. These are all not facts. And not only that, I just feel like in and of itself, the Joe Rogan podcast really preaches that “thinspiration” –

Claire: Here’s the thing. I can already hear the rebuttals of, “Hey, the data shows that more people who are obese died from COVID than from other things.” I think that it’s so important to remember that obesity, which is nothing but a term to describe someone’s BMI does not inherently mean anything about their health. Yes, it can be more common to have obesity along with other comorbidities such as high blood pressure, asthma, diabetes. That being said, obesity in and of itself is not a predicator of almost anything that I can think of. Again, I’m not a medical encyclopedia, but we as a society have become so ingrained into automatically equating obesity with a lack of health and sickness and with being predisposed to all these things. There’s so much more to the story than that than to just say somebody is obese and therefore they’re bound to be unhealthy. The other thing that I found that was really interesting – and I haven’t seen research on this with COVID, but I did see research on this with H1N1 when COVID was first getting really bad. They went back in the data – because they were like, “See, we have this H1N1 data that people who are obese were more likely to die from H1N1.” When they corrected the data for medical bias, that obesity cause completely went away.

Joy: Oh, I believe that.

Claire: There are so many studies out there that show that doctors are less likely to take you seriously, less likely to prescribe you medication, less likely to treat you for the thing you’re there for and not try to treat you for being overweight. The medical system is incredibly biased against overweight people and obese people. I just needed a soapbox for a minute. Because I can hear people being like, “But Joy, the science is there.” That’s just my soapbox that we really need to consider the information that we’re given about weight bias towards really the way that it impacts any sort of data that we see because there’s so much of it everywhere in the medical system.

Joy: Oh yeah. There’s so much more than what we are being told or what patients are being told even. I highly recommend if you’re not already subscribed to the Maintenance Phase podcast. They’re so, so good. Michael Hobbs and Aubrey Gordon. She’s a writer. He also hosts You’re Wrong About, which is one of the top podcast right now. But they have such great conversations about wellness, weight loss, debunking, decoded. They originally were only going to five or six episodes, but it was so popular that they just kept going. Their conversations are just amazing, so highly, highly recommend. Just talking about fat stigma and a lot of really important things. They just did a whole podcast about Weight Watchers. I just really, really enjoy listening to those two, so that’s another good one. And then I can wrap up with my new favorite trash reality show.

Claire: Do you have anything else you wanted to say about Mat’s interview?

Joy: I think that was my main point, was just how I raged about how they talked flippantly – and I think that’s fine if you don’t have millions and millions of followers. I think you need to be a little more responsible about the messaging you put out.

Claire: I totally agree with you. If you’re going to have literally the most popular podcast in the world, you have to have a lot of integrity with what you say.

Joy: Yes. And maybe that’s just not who he is. I just feel like some of the interviews he’s done – 

Claire: I don’t care if it’s not who you are. If you have millions and millions of people who listen to you. That’s the one thing that does kind of drive me crazy a little bit about podcasts is that people who have – and I think about influencer culture as a whole – and we’ve talked about this with people who call themselves nutritionists or health coaches and have absolutely no training. People can have, unlike any other time in history, these huge, huge, huge platforms for information distribution without having any real information at all.

Joy: That’s true. That’s very fair.

Claire: And there’s no fact checking. There’s no journalistic integrity. If you’re a journalist and you knowingly disseminate false information, you are out of a job and no one’s going to hire you again.

Joy: This is very true. And then you end up with QAnon. This is how it happens is people being super irresponsible. I’m not comparing Joe Rogan to QAnon. Please do not send me hate mail. But I’m just saying that when he has a platform like that and I think sometimes he talks out of both sides of his mouth, and think that that is something that he really should be more responsible about when you’re talking about COVID that has truly taken hundreds of thousands of people’s lives. Don’t just flippantly say that we should not double mask and that we should not treat COVID as a very serious illness. Stop spouting your pseudo-science and talk to a doctor. And then the whole fat shaming thing. Some people wrote back and said, “He’s not fat shaming people. I didn’t see it that way.” I sure did. And I think because he is a bro and he’s bro-y, and his idea of health is thinness. I guarantee you that is what he –

Claire: Exactly, exactly.

Joy: He’s the type of person that will – and I haven’t seen this, but I will put bets and money that he is the type of person that would go to a Lizzo post – how she’ll post things and be like, “I’m comfortable in my body,” and everyone’s celebrating, “This is healthy. Health at every size.” He will be the one that’s like, “I can’t believe you’re celebrating this.” That whole Jillian Michaels attitude too where they’re like, “This is objectively unhealthy.” Really? Is it? Are you their doctor? Are you their doctor? Anyway. He’s the type of person that will say something like that. So I think those are the things that if you want to just skip ahead – 

Claire: “You’re just promoting obesity.” 

Joy: Totally. Totally. Which you are – sorry I’m going to say it – a white privileged male that –

Claire: You don’t have to be sorry. Those are facts about him. And I think that that’s the thing also that, I don’t know. A couple of people were like, “Why do you hate Joe Rogan?” And I was like, I can’t even put my finger on it. He’s just not a person whose perspective I feel like I need, and that is a huge piece of it is that I just feel like there’s this worldview that I don’t need more of.

Joy: I don’t know the guy, I’m sure he’s nice. I feel like his worldview is very limited, and I would like to see him… I don’t know. Here’s the thing. He has really interesting guests on, and I do listen to some of his interviews. He’s got really good guests on sometimes. But there’s a little bit going out of the lines that I think is irresponsible when you have that platform. I think that is where I’m just kind of like, I don’t know, take it or leave it. Some things he says, it’s kind of like, listen to what you feel like you can take the good from and then leave the rest. I just think that some of his messaging, he needs to get with the times. He needs to get with the times. You know who he needs to have on? He needs to have on Wesley Morris from Still Processing podcast. Actually he should have both hosts from the Still Processing podcast on his show, and then I think I might respect him a little bit more. And if you don’t listen to that show, you need to ASAP.

Claire: Alright, your new favorite trashy TV show and then we’ll wrap up.

Joy: New favorite trashy TV show is… Marrying Millions. Okay, so here’s the thing. I rarely watch trash TV. I watch it, but I rarely get to watch it. Hear me out. Because Scott and I usually watch shows together that we both like, and he will not watch trash TV. Unless it’s The Bachelor or The Bachelorette, which we both really enjoy because I don’t think it’s too trashy. It’s mostly really funny. But he went to his best friend’s house who is in our bubble on Saturday night to just get out of the house. So I was like, oh my gosh, I get to watch whatever I want with no judgement, no huffing and puffing in the background, no being like, “What are you watching?” And I was just scrolling around, found this show, just hit play instead of spending two hours watching previews. I’m so glad I did. It is so ridiculously trashy. It basically talks about people who are not rich and then marry someone who is a millionaire. They go through four or five couples and their stories. The first episode, I thought this can’t be real. So if you really want a mindless, low stakes show that really does engage you in a way that’s like the trash reality engagement, Marrying Millions is your show. I’ve heard a lot about Below Deck. That’s my next show that I’m going to watch. I’ve realized and just comes to terms that I will not feel guilty about watching trash TV, like reality TV. I’m not going to feel guilty about this anymore.

Claire: You don’t have to.

Joy: This is what I need to zone out. I can look at my phone and come back. I think I fell asleep for a whole episode and I came back and knew exactly what was going on. That’s what I need. I don’t need to watch Nomad Land and fall asleep and have to rewind because I’m like, “What happened?” Reality doesn’t do that for you. It’s always there for you –

Claire: It’s always there for you with minimal amounts of engagement.

Joy: Yes. And you always know what’s going on, no matter how many episodes you miss. 

Claire: That’s hilarious.

Joy: You’re welcome.

Claire: We started watching Waffles + Mochi. It’s a very cute –

Joy: Oh, that looks so cute.

Claire: It’s very cute, but guys I have to tell you. If your most exposure to kids’ shows is Pixar movies, Pixar movies are adult movies made for kids. 

Joy: Yes, they are. Agreed.

Claire: If you ever have to watch preschool TV, you’re going to feel like you’re on drugs if you’re not used to it. One of my friends was like, “I tried to watch Waffles + Mochi. It’s so weird.” I’m like, actually it’s remarkably cohesive as far as preschool TV programming is concerned.

Joy: Right, right. That’s so funny.

Claire: So if you’re not used to it and you’re going to dive in and you’re not used to preschool TV, it’s pretty weird but just know that that’s the norm. All preschool TV is super weird. 

Joy: It’s so good.

Claire: Alright, guys, well thank you for joining us this week. You can follow us on Instagram @joyandclaire_. You can go to our website joyandclaire.com. You can email us at thisisjoyandclaire@gmail.com. Don’t you love how all three of those are different? Who is our marketing person, we’ve got to fire them.

Joy: We need to fire them. It’s us.

Claire: It’s us.

Joy: We’re fired.

Claire: Alright guys, we’ll talk to you next week.

Joy: Love you guys, bye.

Claire: Bye.

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