Is it a coincidence that this episode number is 111??
MEET GINA DEVEE
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This is Joy & Claire Episode 111: The BEST Manifestation Conversation with Gina DeVee
Episode Date: January 27, 2022
Transcription Completed: February 5, 2022
Audio Length: 72:10 minutes
Joy [introduction]: Welcome back to This is Joy and Claire. This week on the show, Claire and I talked to Gina DeVee. We met Gina through Scout’s Agency. Again, that’s an agency that we’ve been working with over the last two years to promote more females on podcasts. When I read Gina’s bio, I was like, oh I think we are going to get along really well. The other thing is that Claire and I have talked about manifesting before or spiritual practices before, kind of how you incorporate that into your life. I have really dabbled in the manifesting world. When The Secret came out and that was really big, that kind of blew my mind. I had a boss who was really into manifesting, and I learned so much from her. I kind of weave in and out of it in my life. Kind of depending on what mood that I am in because sometimes I can just really annoy myself when I get too much into it. Everyone is different of course, but when I saw Gina’s bio, I was like, I really want to talk to her because I need to learn more. One of my goals right now is… sometimes I get into this rut to where I think that I know enough about a subject that I don’t need to learn more. Not that I know it all. I’ll be like, “I’ve heard so much about this before. There is not much else I can find out. There’s not much else that I can gain from it.” And I just find myself dismissing things when in reality, actually I need to dig in deeper and I need to be open. I want to learn more. That’s kind of my focus and my life goal right now is to learn more about myself, learn more about topics I think I know a lot about already. Because there is always more that I can gain from something. So that was my attitude going into this discussion with Gina. Especially because Claire and I tongue and cheek joke about “woo woo” stuff, but Gina is just so funny. I think you guys will love this conversation. Not only that, it really touches on whatever works for you, and there’s just no one way to do anything. Which is always our mission is to never preach that there is a one way of doing things. That’s kind of a red flag for any situation. But at the end of this episode, it really inspired me to open my mind more and to dream bigger and to really just evaluate where I am at in my life and how I want things to go and be a little bit more intentional around that. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. There is nothing wrong with at least reevaluating where you are and opening your mind to things. So Gina is the creator of divineliving.com. You can find out all about her on the website. We have also linked her website in the show notes. And she has a book out called The Audacity to Be Queen: The Unapologetic Art of Dreaming Big and Manifesting Your Most Fabulous Life. We laughed a lot in this epidote, and I hope you enjoy it. It will be a conversation like you have never heard before. Here we go with the episode with Gina DeVee.
Joy: Well, thank you so much for joining us. I am so excited to talk to you. I was telling Claire before we started recording, I have so many questions. And I hope they are not bad questions, but I take it that you wouldn’t take anything as a bad question.
Gina: No. Do you both have a copy of my book?
Gina: Oh, can you send me your addresses and I’ll get you a signed copy?
Joy: Thank you. Yes, that would be amazing. Yeah, that would be really cool. So I saw in your bio that you were a psychotherapist at one point in your career. I am a therapist by trade. That is what I do 40 hours a week. What made you think, okay, I am done with that piece and I want to become this amazing entrepreneur building this business? What was that shift like?
Gina: Are we starting? Is this the podcast?
Joy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We’re rolling.
Gina: I got it. Great. Such a great question. I do have a master’s degree in clinical psychology, and I work with families, children, teens, and adults, dual diagnosis, eating disorders, addictions. As a young therapist, they tend to – I don’t know why – give you everything and the kitchen sink. Which is great because you learn what you love to work with. And really because I just graduated ten minutes ago people. I read about schizoid disorder, but I’m not really exactly sure what I am doing. It is that start that I am so grateful for, having that foundation. Coaching is an unregulated field. Everybody can legit just call themselves a coach. I am such a lover of transformation that there is just a real powerful piece to me that bridges psychology and coaching. Now, to answer your question, every industry has its strengths and its drawbacks. This was back in the late 90’s, early 2000’s. There were a number of drawbacks that for me just became deal breakers. One of them was finances. In no particular order. An insurance company was going to dictate how much they were going to pay me, and I wasn’t going to get paid for 90 days, if I did even get paid. Or even the marketing that I was doing, if I was outside of someone’s network, then I did all that marketing for nothing. I didn’t get into psychology for a business model. Give me some credit. If I really wanted to be wealthy, I would have done commercial real estate or something.
Gina: But I did have a desire to live a great life always. So financially, it was a real struggle. Between having my heartstrings pulled for people’s personal stories and sliding scale rates to insurance. So there were a couple deal breakers for me. One was I was working with a team. He was fine. Feisty, but fine. And he didn’t want to go home with his parents. He pulled the “s” card at like three minutes before the session ended. “Suicide card” for everyone else. So I was legally obligated to admit him into a mental health facility that I did not believe was the best outcome for him. More trauma happened as a result. That was something that I wasn’t in alignment with. And the other one was I was really excited to help people not just get out of the gutter emotionally but to live an amazing life. So we would do the work, but again the insurance companies or even the field of psychology was like, “Well, see you next Monday at 4.” What happens in two hours when I am a hot mess express? I didn’t have the words at the time, “coaching.” I could realize, if they just did two hours with me, we would be a lot further ahead. Or if we did a one day intensive. So I started doing that with some of my cash clients where that was allowed. I think that there were just certain restrictions to the level of transformation that I knew I could get someone in a fairly short period of time and that were legit more of coaching in terms of ideation. Counseling and therapy is really taking your life and looking into the past and making connections and giving awareness and breakthroughs, which are sometimes absolutely necessary.
Joy: Right. Yeah.
Gina: And coaching is about taking where you are at and looking forward. So I think that the combination of all of that is what led me into coaching.
Joy: Yeah. And I think it’s really important to know – I am sure you felt this way, I am going to assume. I know this is in a lot of fields. I am just speaking for the behavioral health field. The – I don’t know if “martyr” is the right word, but you kind of have this complex of, “I’m not really in it for the money because we are helping people.” So you feel bad if you want to make money in that field because you can’t ask for money if you are in a helping profession. I am sure teachers feel that way. I am sure nurses feel that way. I wanted to talk a little bit about that too. I am speaking for myself. A lot of the questions I am going to ask you today are selfishly about myself because I might as well give you personal examples. I can’t believe or whatever that it’s wrong to make too much money in this field because you are supposed to be a helper. How did you get through that?
Gina: I got the best answer for you.
Gina: I was working at a clinic, but it’s also a Christian counseling clinic. So just shelf do-gooder, want to help people, heartstring pull people in need. Add Christianity on top of it. I am a Christian. I can say all this. And I’m Italian. I’ll make fun of Sicilians in a minute. Just wait, everyone. I had drank the Kool-Aid. I was there to help people. You need a sliding scale rate. This is how bad I was – people would call the clinic and be like, “How much do you charge?” “$100. But if you don’t have insurance and you can’t afford that, no worries. I do sliding scale rate. How about $50?” I wouldn’t even hesitate. Maybe just in shock because it was so little, and if they would even just not say anything, “Or $35… or $20?” That was me completely.
Joy: It’s kind of like when people have something for sale and they’re like, “$2,000 or best offer.” So you are basically saying that you don’t want $2,000.
Gina: Ten bucks? Okay. So here is what happened. I was so obsessed with helping people transform their lives. I was doing a lot of marriage counseling at the time. People in really challenging places in their marriage would come in. Usually it’s kind of like the doctor. By the time you get to marriage counseling, at least in the 90’s, you waited a hot minute. You waited for some serious level of destruction in the relationship. Some people would come in on their last leg, their last wing and a prayer, probably justifying their impending divorce. Like, “Well, we will give this a shot.” So they’ll come in and they’re like, “Well, we don’t really have a lot of money for counseling.” “No problem, let’s do this.” They would come with like a gallon-size worth of trauma and problems for a Dixie-cup size 50-minute session with me, be like, “Fix it,” and I’d be like, “Let’s try.” So I’d put all this effort and al this love and all this, “We can do it. Let’s figure this out.” And after their maybe third session, they’re like, “This isn’t working.” Meaning, our marriage isn’t repaired in three sessions. We don’t really have the money for more counseling. And every single time, each of them had $5,000 for their divorce attorney retainer. I watched it.
Joy: Oh my God, yeah.
Gina: And didn’t question it. That was fact. Well, we need the $5,000 for the divorce attorney, but we are not going to even put in a thousand dollars or two thousand dollars into marriage counseling. I thought about it. And I was young at the time, so I wasn’t ingrained in psychology mentality. I looked at it and I was like, you know what? And I am generalizing here. I am probably going to tick a lot of people off, but I am okay with that because this was true for me. I was like, in general, the profession of law values their services more than the profession of psychology. And when I say values their services, meaning they have more self-confidence to charge their worth. Because yes, some attorneys do some pro bono work. Just a general mentality that there is a substantial billable hour for whatever attorney you are going to work with.
Joy: That’s very true. That’s a great point.
Gina: So at that time, master’s level was charging… whatever, give or take $100 a session, and PhD level was $125.
Gina: As a master’s level, you wouldn’t dare charge $125. That was only for the PhD’s.
Joy: Right, right.
Gina: And I was like, what if I raised my rates? And what if I charged more? Or what if I charged in packages? Which again, the insurance companies wouldn’t let you do. And so I just realized, Gina, you are expecting hurting people in a desperate situation to value your services more than you are willing to. It is kind of like I want someone else to love me more than I am willing to love myself. I am standing in this. I have just as much education as any attorney out there. I believe in transformation, and now I have to value my services. So I raised my rates to $115 an hour.
Joy: The nerve
Gina: Edging a little bit too close to those PhD’s as a master’s level, but I was heading in that direction.
Joy: The nerve of you.
Gina: The nerve. The nerve. The arched eyebrows, you should have seen them. And especially in Christian counseling. Come on, people. And then that’s when I realized it’s not about the external. It’s about the internal. And when we value ourselves and take a stand, that’s who we work with. And I also had to realize there are a lot of really beautiful services for free and low dollar – there’s Jewish family services, Catholic social services. I thought, just because someone has money does not mean they are in less emotional pain. If somebody has money to pay my full rate so that I can get out of the $75,000 of debt that I was in at the time and still living at home with my parents in the suburbs of Detroit at the age of 30 – come on. Help a sister out. We can all find a win-win here. So I raised my rates.
Claire: We have a recurring guest on our podcast who was the executive director of a non-profit. A line that he said the last time we checked up on him has stuck with me that he was directing this non-profit to serve the LGBTQ community within fitness. Then he decided to go to law school. He had the same thing of if I want to make a difference, I have to do it completely at an expense to every other goal in my life. And he had a mentor who finally said to him, you can do good while still doing well. And I feel like that’s very similar to what you are talking about, that you don’t have to necessarily pick and choose. Or you shouldn’t have to.
Gina: I think that everyone needs to go for their highest calling, whatever that is. I happen to have aspirations that have a certain price tag on them. I don’t make those better. They just are what they are. Believe me, I love to travel, and I love to stay in five-star hotels. That’s my happy place. I wish I liked camping more than I do. I do. I wish that the whole pop-up campers Instagram life – I wish I like VW’s more than I do. I would be out of personal alignment if I was like, Birkenstocks. I want a Burkin. I have a Burkin. It’s like that.
Gina: And I don’t have any judgment on anyone. You do you. If your salary affords you your life of pleasure and contribution and is in alignment and it’s $50,000 a year, it’s $80.000 a year, you don’t need to go get a different career. I did.
Joy: Yeah. I think that’s the catch is we think that if someone has a different alignment goal that that is better or worse or there’s this hierarchy. Plenty of people are so happy living that van life. I’m with you. Claire, what?
Claire: I’m going to laugh about that joke forever. I don’t want Birkenstocks. I want Burkin.
Joy: That’s a line in my book.
Claire: I mean, I am team Birkenstock personally.
Joy: Yeah, Claire is that. I am you.
Claire: But I think a big piece too. I think when people, especially women, hear other women say, “I didn’t want that life, so here’s how I got this other life,” what they a lot of times hear is, “I didn’t want that life because it’s stupid and crappy and no one should want it. Everyone come over here and look at these other goals you should have instead.”
Claire: I think that’s a great point. I love you say, I kind of wish I wanted to go camping more. I don’t think we hear that version of it very often. Yeah, I do have these expensive tastes. Sometimes I wish I didn’t have these expensive tastes. Life might be a little bit simpler if that weren’t the case.
Gina: Absolutely. Here is what I’m about. I’m about financial relaxation. And you got to pick your own number on that. I could care less about how much money is in someone’s bank account. I’m obsessed with pleasure, about living life based on pleasure. To me, meaningful work is pleasurable. Spending time with my husband is pleasurable. And then for me, it’s travel. It’s travel, it’s cooking, it’s food, it’s fashion. Look it, if I love a sweater from Zara, I’ll be all about it. And if I love a sweater from Hermes, then it’s that. So it’s really, for me, about being financially relaxed enough to make a choice that I like. Sometimes I love a steak, and I order P.F. Chang’s all the time.
Joy: I think that’s such a good point because I am so much like you, and Claire is so happy with living that Birkenstock, camping. And there’s times where I really wish I was more like that, but I’m just not.
Claire: I’m over here deciding how much to spend – like my husband went ice climbing this weekend.
Gina: Ice climbing.
Claire: Yes. Climbing with ice axes on ice like Edward Scissorhands.
Gina: Were you concerned for his longevity?
Claire: I would have gone with him if I didn’t have to watch our kids.
Joy: She’s gone plenty of times. I know, I’m with you Gina.
Claire: What’s that face? It’s not as hardcore as it sounds.
Joy: It is though.
Gina: I live in Miami. Yes, it is.
Claire: I definitely live in this world, so I just kind of take for granted people ice climb. But all that to say, I think it’s also funny because I am the person who will spend the extra money to get the ski vacation –
Gina: Heated sleeping bag?
Claire: That sounds like it might be heavy, so probably not. [laughing] No, I know. I’m just joking. But right, there are still ways that if we are going to go on a ski vacation, I want to spend that extra money to buy the lesson package that will get me on a lift before everyone else. There is that version no matter what your genre is. The idea of fashion – this is the most put together I ever look. I know people out there can’t see me. I actually showered today and curled my hair. This is a once in a week occasion for me.
Joy: It’s true. It’s true.
Claire: I live where I can get away with that, and that’s great. That’ what I want. But I feel like Joy is about to go down this rabbit hole as well. I know that it’s not just about standing up one day and saying, “This is enough. I want a different direction.” And I think a lot of people see that moment, especially lately with this “great resignation” and people really taking the opportunity of the last two years and the way that our world has changed to make really dramatically different directions for their lives. It’s that moment of decision and of clarity can be really romanticized, but then it’s not like you just kick off into this montage and then the song ends and you’re where you want to be. So let’s hear a little bit more about – the process is really where you live.
Gina: Yeah, I like a good destination too. I’m not going to lie. The journey begins with a first step, for sure. And I think the biggest mistake women make is thinking that they have to know what every step is to get to that destination. Guys give themselves way more permission. They don’t have to know wit all. They don’t have to have every duck lined up before they give themselves permission to try something out, go in a new direction, take a leap. So yes, I think with this great resignation and women waking up to, “What am I doing with my life?” How do I actually decide to do life, motherhood, career, lifestyle? Where do I want to live? I don’t know a woman who isn’t asking herself that, hasn’t been asking herself that for at least a year or year and a half. And continues to live in the question. For the past 25 years, I primarily have been a business coach. And I’ve loved it because so much of my own story was needing to be around transforming my own relationship with money. So teach what you want to learn. You know, 2020 was a very, very difficult year for so many and just a heart wrenching year for so many. That was not my personal experience. I had empathy and compassion for those that were going through that. 2020, because I was in coaching in seminar business, and I also did launch my book in the third of 2020. You wait 20 years to write your first book, launch in the week of a global pandemic – eh.
Joy: Don’t recommend it.
Gina: I wouldn’t have thought, and yet, all I did was I saw the world shutting down, I remembered Tony Robbins said in a crisis most people go under, and there’s a small group of people that rise to the top. I caught it right at the beginning. I’m like, I’m rising to the top. What does that mean? Oh, shut down your global book tour. Okay. Oh, shut down all of your global seminars. Oh, okay. And we went global. Everything went on Zoom. My biggest expenses evaporated, and my profits went through the roof. 2020 was financially, and from a contribution standpoint, one of my best years yet. So I was like, this is amazing. The book tour would have been great, but honestly it would have been a very expensive vanity project to stand in the room, put my hand on my hip, and hug someone and sign a book. So I had no podcasts booked. Did a pivot. Went on a podcast tour instead. How many more thousands and thousands and thousands of people, hundreds of thousands of people –
Joy: So many.
Gina: Right. And then 2021 came around. I am answering your question, I promise. So 2021 came around, and January was one of my normal business launches, and nothing was working. Nothing was going right. All of the sudden, I couldn’t have been less interested. The launch, the numbers were lower than ever. I was working harder than ever. My self-esteem was getting his because I am standing there watching my colleagues, and they are blowing it up, and they are getting bigger numbers than ever. Oh my God, am I a fax machine? Am I no longer relevant? Why is nobody signing up? What is happening? I cried every single day of January 2021. February 2021, I did not cry every day. I stopped. Because life as I knew it was ending. My business model was ending. I moved. I wasn’t living in the same spot. Friends were ghosting me, people who clearly were not meant to be in my life. My business was just shutting down left, right, and center. The only thing that remained consistent in my life in February 2021 was my husband. Then March 2021 my father unexpectedly went into the hospital. It’s so cliche. I’m sorry, but it’s a true story, so I am going to stand by it. I go and I sit at my elementary school teacher father’s bedside. Bob Ratliff who taught elementary school for 32 years in the same classroom. Actually taught the kids of his kids. He is that guy. Took me sledding, piano lessons, ballet, all that. I am sitting here looking at this man saying, is he going to make it? Is this the end? What is happening? And then right then and there I surrendered. I surrendered to God my life – my life is normally easy. It is my career is my trigger point. Career and money are my – well, I’ll keep watching this one. Thanks God, you can have the rest. I finally surrendered it all. And to surrender does not mean to give up. It means to give over to. I handed God my life, and I just said, I am going to stop resisting. Clearly this is not what you want from me any longer. Show me what else. Show me what’s next and I’ll be there for it. Just make sure I really like it.
Joy: Just please make sure I like it.
Gina: So the rest of 2021, I wasn’t resigning from a job, but I was resigning from life as I knew it. We shut down all of my business-building programs in June. I went on a motorcycle ride with my husband around the Great Lakes because I guess that’s what a girl from Michigan does when she is living in the question. And really letting myself live in the question – and here is my actual answer – and not need to know the outcome. Not need to know the outcome. Be more aware than ever of what feels good, what really feels like a “yes” to me. Besides practicality, besides logic, besides what looks responsible to someone else’s financial plan or brand or whatever and just really getting into what else is possible and what else am I meant for. I don’t have an answer yet. But I have so much more joy and so much more peace and so much more faith. I know that first mountain if it was that great that the second mountain is meant to be even greater. That’s the one that I’m climbing right now, internally, metaphorically, only zero physical exertion required.
Joy: I think a lot of people are going to relate to that. I won’t go into my story just because I already told it on the podcast, but listeners know and I’ll just tell you briefly that last year, I was in a similar situation where I was in this really toxic workplace, ended up leaving, and had to just surrender everything. In my life, I am very similar to you. Career, job, work, that’s who I am. I identify a lot with that. I had to just let it go and be like, alright. And once you let go, you can almost feel how much you were pushing against it before.
Gina: Oh my gosh. The energy, the energy straining.
Joy: So much. But you don’t know it until you let go. So you have to kind of just be like, “I’m done.” And once you step back and you have that perspective, you’re like, holy moly was I really pushing against that.
Gina: Here’s the thing. I was holding on to my business-building career like I was not letting this go. You want to know the real kicker? I didn’t even want to teach business classes anymore.
Joy: Yeah, and I didn’t want that job.
Gina: I was holding onto this thing that I didn’t even want.
Joy: I hated that job.
Gina: It’s like I’ll see women in relationships, “I’m scared to leave.” You don’t even like him. What are you doing? I’m scared for you to stay in it. Now if I could tell myself that.
Joy: No, it’s true. I was bawling crying, and my husband looked at me and he goes, “Joy, you hated that job.” And I was like, “[crying] I did hate that job.”
Gina: But, but, but…
Joy: Yeah, you don’t want it to ever get to a point where you have to let go. You almost want more control around the plan. I think a lot of people will relate to that. And anyone listening who is maybe going through something, if you do have the ability to let go and step back and get perspective, you will realize how much you were pushing against it. And you don’t know until you get out of it.
Gina: All wise people know this. The new life is always better than the old. The new life is always better, whether it is relationship, whether it is career. The thing is that society teaches us that especially when women get to be of a certain age, then it’s “downhill.” Whether it is with relationship or career or “Those were my glory days.” I am more obsessed, if for no other reason, to transform every area of my life to declare that 50-year-old women are just – like, that first act was just preparing us for the real level of greatness that we are meant for. I have this – it’s called the Q Club, for all things queen – it’s a Q Club app, and I just declared in there. Now, I have a certain level of vanity that I am unapologetic about. I went and put on a bikini and went and stood on video and took pictures and measurements and scale and said, “Here is where I’m at. January 2022.” I turn 50 this year, and we are J. Lo-ing this body.
Joy: Because J. Lo is what – is J. Lo 50?
Gina: 53? At 51, she was swinging on that pole during the Super Bowl with those abs. She showed me what a 50-year-old body can do, and I’m about to find out.
Joy: That’s amazing. Are we going to see you on a pole?
Gina: That’s a great idea. [gasp] I’m taking pole dancing classes – yes!
Joy: I’m so excited. I’m so excited to see that.
Gina: Best idea ever. I’m completely doing a pole dancing routine in that bikini by the time I am 50. Oh, the Q Club is going to love you.
Joy: I can’t wait. I want to get into the Q Club because I need to see that.
Claire: Oh my goodness.
Gina: And it won’t be on Instagram. That is for Q Club eyes only.
Joy: Q Club only.
Gina: Oh my God, I love this so much.
Claire: Alright, well let’s take a quick break to talk about our fantastic sponsor, Ned. We love Ned. I literally use Ned every single night. I look forward to it every single day. It makes such a difference in my sleep. And I was thinking about this the other day, Joy. You know how you always talk about hotel sleep?
Claire: I sleep like crap at hotels.
Joy: [laughing] I’m sorry, that was just really funny.
Claire: Mine is more like the night home in your own bed after being stuck in a hotel sleep.
Claire: Every time you say that, I nod along.
Joy: But actually I hate it. Oh my gosh, that’s hilarious.
Claire: I’m not ever warm enough. The pillows are too soft.
Joy: That’s great, that’s great. Okay, okay.
Claire: I have been using the straight hemp 750 mg. I do really like the sleep blend. I find the hemp for me is just as effective and it’s a little bit less expensive. So that’s the one that I have been gravitating towards. We always get the question, “Am I supposed to taste this pot taste?” It does kind of taste a little bit like pot.
Joy: A little bit, I’m not going to lie. I do have to do a shooter of juice after I take it.
Claire: I do have to chase it a little bit.
Joy: Yeah, I’ve got to have a chaser.
Claire: I’ve actually kind of come to appreciate it. I kind of look forward to it. So my new nighttime routine, are you ready?
Joy: I saw your little stand.
Claire: Oh my gosh, I got this cute little stand at Target, $1. I brush my teeth. I do my Ned under my tongue. And then while it’s sitting under my tongue, because you’re supposed to leave it, I get my Vitamin D and my magnesium, and I walk to the kitchen. I swallow the CBD. I take my other vitamins. And then I sit down and I have a cup of Sleepytime. The triple whammy of CBD, magnesium, and Sleepytime. I have been sleeping unbelievably well.
Joy: Everyone should do what you’re doing. You’re prescribing this officially. Just kidding. I’m kidding, I’m kidding. I’m thinking of Laure Ligos when she’s like, “Hey, hold on.”
Claire: I’m not prescribing supplements. All that to say, guys, we love Ned. We love the products. We love the founders. We love the company. It’s local to Colorado. All their hemp is grown in Colorado. They do amazing third-party testing on all of their batches. If you are interested in CBD, or if you’ve been trying CBD and are like, “This doesn’t really work,” try out Ned because their stuff is really high quality. We love it.
Joy: And if you want to try one of the new products, the new destress blend from Ned, a brand that we love and trust, we have a special offer for our audience. Every order over $40 qualifies for 15% off and a free destress blend sample. Go to helloned.com/JOY or enter JOY at checkout to take advantage of this offer. That’s helloned.com/JOY to get 15% off plus a free destress blend sample on any order over $40. Thank you, Ned, for sponsoring our program and offering our listeners a natural remedy for some of life’s most common health issues.
Claire: And thank you guys for supporting the brands that support our podcast.
Joy: I’m so excited. Okay, I want to switch a little bit because I do want to talk about your book. Whenever Claire and I talk about this – Claire and I have been talking for almost 10 years now, in terms of podcasting. We have had a lot of conversations around this. Claire gets a little cringy, like a lot of people do, around the word “manifesting.”
Claire: Way to call me out, Joy.
Joy: I do too. I do too. I’ve done tons of reading. I went all out when I was in my 30’s on manifesting, The Secret, Abraham Hicks –
Gina: Does “woman testing” help at all?
Claire: No, that’s worse. Womanafesting?
Joy: I kind of dove into it in my 30’s. I’m 44 now. I think in the past 5-6 years, I have kind of lost steam with it. I don’t know what it is with the word “manifesting.” You know what it is? I wonder if it is almost like Instagram of people putting up with picture perfect life of, “You can have what I have. It’s this perfect picture life and you can manifest.” To me, it just feels really shallow. To me, somehow it has lost the true meaning of what it means to be purposeful about your life. So I want to talk with you about that of how you make it meaningful so when you hear it, it is not this woo-y, “we’re joining a cult” and ignoring all the problems of the world. It’s very complicated.
Gina: I see you. I see you with this. So there’s a couple of things. One, it’s really important where we receive our information. I’m going to get a little woo. There’s an energy and there’s a vibration to that. And there is an association to it. Let’s us a really polarizing word. Are either of you Christian?
Joy: I grew up Catholic, so I’m in the world, but I’m not practicing Christian.
Gina: There’s a charge around that word, would you say?
Joy: Totally. For sure.
Gina: There’s the word “Christian,” just like there is the word “manifesting.” And there is the Bible thumpers and if you don’t John 3:16 it all the way you are going to hell, and by the way give all your money to the church and follow the scriptures but I am going to be the most judgmental, critical, domineering creature on the planet. There’s those Christians. And then there’s other Christians that love you as you are and are there to help provide insight or wisdom or peace if you are looking for that in a place where you can actually feel seen and heard and loved. I think that’s sort of the same thing with “manifesting.” Where are you getting the information from?
Joy: That fits. That definitely fits. I think that when we think of manifesting – I’m probably going to offend people – I think of the rich, white girl who has everything given to her and she’s like, “Look what I manifested.” I’m like, really? Did you though?
Gina: Right. Right. So I think that there is an association. And especially with your therapeutic and mental health background, there can be a glossing over a bit.
Joy: For sure.
Gina: There is a bit of pouring paint over some actually really profound concepts.
Joy: For sure.
Gina: Meditation could be another one. It’s an ancient practice, and I’m pretty sure there’s a couple Millennials out there that are convinced that they invented it.
Joy: Totally, totally.
Gina: They’re like, “Have you tried meditation?” Yeah, since before you were born.
Claire: Have you heard of this crazy new thing?
Joy: It’s like when the Enneagram became all popular and I was like, oh my God, I took a training on that a few years ago. Stop making it popular.
Gina: So we can be excited that the younger generation is also excited and has a particular form of communication around it. However, don’t let it rob you of, quite frankly, the ancient power of true manifesting. What I love about manifesting is to me it is a spiritual version of creation. I am not into the hustle and grind, the make it happen, take the bull by the horns, massive action. All of those words immediately put my body into shut down. I’m going to get tired and just look for a [INAUDIBLE 00:40:47.18]. None of it is inspiring to me. But manifesting to me lets me connect with the divine. And if the divine is my source and source is access to infinite possibility, I am excited about that. And quite frankly. I don’t need to make it all happen in my life. I am fully available for the miraculous. I am totally available for the quantum, the exponential world. And that doesn’t happen when you are pounding the pavement. To me, that only happens when you are open spiritually. Do you want to hear a manifesting story? Do you want to hear my first financial miracle?
Joy: Yeah, for sure. I’m here for it.
Gina: What are you going to do? I’m on your podcast as a guest, and you’re like, “No, actually, that does not sound interesting.”
Joy: Please don’t tell me about money. I really hate it. [laughing]
Gina: I’ll try to make this go fast. But let’s reprogram the concept of manifesting. So I was in my early 30’s. I was $75,000 in debt. I just moved out of my parents’ house in Detroit from being a psychotherapist to now being a self-declared life coach. I have seen my father cry three times in his life. One was when his mother died. I was 6. Two was when he dropped me off at college. And three was when I left Michigan when I was making $2,000 a month to go to California to be a life coach. He was like, “But you work so hard and you’re licensed in your degree.” I just remember telling myself, I’m working 75 hours a week, I’m $75,000 in debt, living off of $2,000 a month. I got to roll the dice and take a gamble. I don’t know what’s in California, but it’s got to be better than this. I was going to geographical cure, absolutely. So off to California I go, and now I am living in a little apartment in Santa Monica, and I am a self-declared life coach. Rather than being consistently broke on my $2,000 a month, I get to be neurotically broke because I created a $6,000 life coaching package with life coach extraordinaire right here. So it was really exciting because any day of the week someone could sign up for a $6,000 package. It sounds really sexy except when you sell one every 4-6 months. Okay. So there I am down to $100 in my bank account, totally depressed, didn’t have any friends at the time, family wasn’t speaking to me. That’s a whole other Oprah. Remember the Italian, Sicilian thing? We’re going to regret that later.
Gina: So I have no family connection going on at the time and literally did not know how I was going to make money. Credit cards were shot through. I prayed, “Dear God, show me a way.” I get a call from a friend of a friend in Australia. Never heard of the guy before. He said his name was Bob. Not my dad though. Anyways, he was friends with my friend Grace who lived in Australia. I have a really bad Australian accent, otherwise I’d try to imitate it. He said, “I just came to LA. I’m going to this seminar. Do you want to join me?” It was free. I had no friends. Didn’t know what the seminar was. “Sure Bod.” So I put $20 of gas from my $100 into the car. I drive down from LA to Orange County. Walk in kind of a little bit excited. There was a seminar. I’m going to learn something. That’s cool. I walk in and I’m looking around, and there are people buzzing around. They seemed happy. I had been depressed for so long, that seemed weird. I go to the check-in table and I get my three-ring binder, put it under one arm. I look at it, and I was like, it’s The Science of Getting Rich. Oh God, now I’ve just fallen into one of those California cults that my parents in Michigan always warned me against.
Joy: You’re like, “Is this Scientology?”
Gina: The Christians are going to go nuts. The science of getting f-ing rich, are you kidding me? And then they hand you a book and a three-ring binder and a yellow highlighter. And then I’m looking around at the check-in table and there were these stacks of DVD’s. Yes, this was 2004 people. I look at it, and it’s of The Secret. I’d been hearing about The Secret.. People were talking about The Secret. I don’t normally stand that long in front of a $20 purchase, but when it is 20% of your net worth you are going to take a beat and you are going to consider, do I go for this or not? I was like, why not. So spend $20 on The Secret. Add that to my collection of cult classics. Now, I have $60 in my bank account. Go into the seminar, sit in the back because I am not going to be talking to these crazy Californians who are high fiving each other and hugging each other, clearly were high on life. And I was like, let me just take my depression and my bad mood and my broke assness to the back. I’ll just take notes and peace out. So then, this dude comes out. Clearly 189 years old. Bob Proctor if you don’t know who I am talking about.
Joy: Oh, I totally know Bob Proctor.
Gina: Bob Proctor. Three-piece suit. He looks like all the preachers from all the churches I went to in Detroit. I’m like, this is going to be okay. Then he opens up the seminar and says, “Unless you are incredibly wealthy, you will never live a fulfilled life.” Oh God. Oh God. Cult for sure. Cult for sure. I got to go. But my brain is like, get out of here. This is Satan’s work. And my soul is like, “Freedom!” I had never heard anyone say this. My soul knew that it had to be true because money was the thing that was ruining every part of my life. So I’m like, I’m going to hold to my integrity. I am not selling my soul to this. And then everything he started saying, “There is no lack of money in the world. There’s no lack of clients in the world. There is enough for everyone, just like air.” He’s going on and on. I’m starting to feel my vibration rise. I’m starting to not actually feel depressed but feel mildly okay. And then he is teaching the different concepts of all these different universal laws. I’m like, what’s that? But it just means that there is more than enough for everybody. So I’m like, okay, that sounds great. So then I was getting my vibration. It was just feeling great, and I was feeling open. Everything about this made sense to me. And then right there and then in the middle of the seminar, I just had that clarity. We talked about making that decision before, and a decision means to cut. I made the decision that I would never again struggle financially. I also made the decision that I’d never again say, “I’d love to, but I don’t have the money.” “Hey Gina, do you want to go…?” I’d love to, but I don’t have the money. “Gina, do you want to take a trip?” I’d love to, but I don’t have the money. Never again. Never again. I didn’t know how. I didn’t need to know how. This was my declaration to my own self and my soul. And this was it. This was it. I was now going to have a life. It was one of those multispeaker events. The next speaker that comes up, a woman. This is amazing. She also was not 189 years old. I just knew that whatever she was going to sell I was going to buy it. She goes and makes her pitch. She does her talk. This is great. I am so her next client. And then she pitches a $17,000 coaching program. So I didn’t have $17,000. I didn’t know anyone who ever had $17,000 at one time in their life. And thirdly, if I had $17,000, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t need a coach because clearly I would have solved all the mysteries of life if I had $17,000 in change. That was Gina at this time. But however, I just said I would never again struggle financially and I would never again say, “I’d love to, but I don’t have the money.” So I walk up to her. She’s super tall, and I was like, “Hi, I’m Gina. I’m your next new star student. This is going to be amazing. I want to sign up for your program. I’ve just got one question – do you do a payment plan?” What, like I’ve got a corporate paycheck? An inheritance coming in? What is that going to do, a payment plan? And she says, “No.” This is the problem with rich people. They don’t understand that if they would just let me into the program for free, I would be the most amazing testimonial. Come on, doesn’t everyone get my logic? So this rich bitch was going to need to be taught a lesson. So I got and fill out all 16 digits of my debit card with expiration date, hand it to her assistant, and I said, “You give me two weeks before you run that card.” And then there was another speaker, and she had a $10,000 program, and I bought that too. Then I went and put my three-ring binder, The Science of Getting Rich, under one arm and The Secret under the other and drove myself back to LA with all the manifesting tools that I was taught at that workshop. I see myself with $30,000 in two weeks. I can feel $30,000 in my bank account. I see myself being coached by these coaches. In two weeks, I see in my Wells Fargo checking, I’m doing the visualization, the emotionalizing over and over. And my then boyfriend, now husband said, “Gina, what are we going to do…“ No, no. We will speak nothing other than the complete and total manifestation of the said reality. In five days, I see myself with $30,000. In four days, I see myself with… In three days… In two days… Well, in two days I was running out of time. I had a one-day intensive with a client. We are going to call him Joe. And Joe was there clearly not for business coaching at the time. This was the marriage coaching era people. So I was just working on Joe with his wife on his marriage. It was the end of the therapy package, of their six months. And he’s like, “Gina, this has been great.” And I was like, “Great Joe.” He’s like, “Our marriage has been fantastic.” “Great, Joe.” I’ve got 24 hours in my situation. And he’s like, “You know, I’ve been wanting to ask you something.” “What is it, Joe?” He’s like, “I’m thinking I should have you coach my sales team.” I knew he was a wealthy businessman, but I didn’t know what he did. I tried to do everything over the last six months to not let anything touch a business conversation because I needed him to know that I was not an idiot when it came to marriage coaching but I was in terms of everything business. So I was like, oh God. I was almost free and clear. “So, what do you sell, Joe?” That’s a smart business question, right? I was really proud of myself. I was entering the ring. And he says, “Basement waterproofing.” Really, God? Really? I did not look that differently than I do today. Basement waterproofing sales director? Are you kidding me? What is even happening? “Well, how many people are on your basement waterproofing sales team, Joe?” Another smart question. I am scoring. I am like Brady over here. And he says, “Ten.” I was done with my business questions and my business inquiry. I didn’t know anything about sales. I didn’t know he or she who talks first loses. Didn’t know anything. All I knew is that I had not another question in me. So he says, “So what do I do? Buy ten of those $6,000 packages of yours?” Joe. Of course. That’s exactly what you do. But in two weeks, not thirty, but $60,000 was manifested into my bank account. So I was able to buy my coaching program and take a trip to Saint-Tropez and pay off a little bit of debt.
Joy: That’s unbelievable. That’s almost unbelievable.
Gina: Do you like manifesting any better now?
Joy: Yes. I feel like I have always – honestly, honestly, in my mind, I privately like to think about that stuff. But it just scares me when I start to say things out loud that I’m just like, is it real though? Maybe I am just a questioner. It’s not like a doubty thing. I don’t know. My feet are on the ground… it’s very weird. Claire, do you know what I’m trying to say?
Claire: She doesn’t buy into stuff.
Gina: Neither do you.
Claire: Yeah, that’s fair. But I think the difference between Joy and I is I don’t have a desire to buy into it.
Joy: And I do. I do. I do.
Claire: With Joy, it’s like I want to buy into it, but I don’t want to be the type of person who buys into stuff. I’m fine with just owning that manifestation feels… this is similar. A couple years ago we had a psychic on the podcast.
Joy: Yeah, yeah.
Claire: And it was a similar conversation of –
Joy: Yeah, similar. I totally believe in that stuff.
Claire: I don’t really believe in that stuff, but it doesn’t bother me that other people believe in it. I don’t see harm in other people doing it. Just for me, it doesn’t resonate. Okay, I’ll go down another path.
Gina: Or go up an ice mountain.
Claire: Yeah, I’ll go up an ice mountain. It will be great. I will not seek the guidance of my dead ancestors. I will not declare $30,000 in my bank account at the end of two weeks. Fine. I’m okay with that. I don’t need that stuff. And I think for me, something I was really thinking about as were coming into this conversation is I have definitely been very around manifestation conversation. I used to work in a job where I would set up marketing plans for – do you know who Arielle Ford is? A lot of the early –
Claire: Yeah, so she was a client of ours. A lot of the early folks, and I think that I see that stuff. If we want to talk about Arielle Ford as an example, this was when she was doing all her lover, attracting stuff. Like, really buy a second toothbrush and put it out to attract your soul mate? If I went to someone’s house and they were like, “I have a toothbrush for you.” I’d be like, “Do you also have a suit made of skin? I am out of here.” But I think that I have a hard time coming into it with an open mind because I feel like there is so much in the world – who am I to declare these – can I manifest the end of world hunger or something like that?
Claire: That’s where I get tripped up. We were talking before the episode, hey, let’s talk about goal setting. I think right now people have a hard time wanting big things for their future because the future seems really scary.
Joy: Yeah. Like, the world is suffering. I know it’s all how we think about it too. I don’t want to be dismissive about the crap that’s going on in the world.
Claire: Like global warming.
Joy: And the fires that just happened in Colorado.
Claire: You name it, right.
Joy: Why am I focused on me? You know. It’s so weird.
Claire: There’s a more and more examples every day.
Gina: Okay, so a couple of things. One is I love sharing that story. That was my first financial miracle. I want it to be an inspiration to people. I also understand that depending on what mindset you’re in, like Gina ten minutes before then could not have – I would have either rolled my eyes, totally believed the person speaking was lying straight up, or “fine, she got lucky, and that happens to other people but not me.” This is not a shameless plug. I’m going to send you two my book. I want everyone else to get it.
Joy: Yeah, I am so excited.
Gina: It shows manifestation opportunities large and small. Whether it is getting the parking slot in front of the farmer’s market to whatever, whatever. We don’t have time to go through all of them, but so many stories are in there. When I couldn’t pay my $75 cell phone bill, and I manifested that money. And to answer your question, Claire, about can I end world hunger? Can I manifest that? Clearly, you would care more about that. So spiritual principle is “ask and it is given.” On the spiritual level, our job is to ask. To ask for food on our table, to be able to pay our bills, end world hunger, be able to buy a coaching program, whatever the ask is. On the spiritual level, and this is a little bit in the toothbrush world, is it’s already done. It’s been given. So well if it’s been given, then how come we don’t see an end to world hunger. I asked for that. So everything has a frequency to it. Claire, do you care about organic food?
Gina: Got it. I got it.
Claire: I gave that away earlier with the Birkin Bag comment.
Joy: You’re right on.
Gina: So Claire, do you think that there is a different frequency between Imperial margarine, butter, and Horizon organic butter.
Claire: A frequency? Now you’re speaking a woo language that I don’t want to go down. Which is okay. It’s okay.
Gina: How would you describe the difference between Imperial margarine, butter, and high vibe organic butter?
Joy: Like Erewhon, Claire. Think Erewhon.
Claire: Yeah, I’m thinking like the clarified Himalayan sea salt ghee I have in my pantry. I think I would say, at the very basic level, this is a healthier choice.
Claire: And it’s probably going to help your body function without your body having to work so hard to process whatever it is that you’re eating.
Gina: Do you eat meat?
Gina: So the difference between a McDonalds burger and a grass-fed beef burger.
Claire: Sure. You’re talking to someone who has a free-range grass-fed cow in her garage.
Gina: Of course you do. Would you consider the McDonalds burger maybe low vibe and the grass-fed more high vibe?
Claire: Totally. I mean, I wouldn’t describe it like that. I don’t say the word “vibe.” I agree with you, and I see where you are getting at. I do think there are very different things that are invoked when I think about or imagine everything from the supply chain to the act of digesting those two substances.
Gina: How about low quality and high quality?
Gina: So a scientific way of saying low quality and high quality is saying low vibe and high vibe. Vibe is vibration. Vibration is frequency. So just like when you go and tune your radio to 88.1. You’re tuning into a frequency there, and it is different than 104.7. It’s a different frequency. You don’t have to believe this, but there is science to help prove it that can make it a little bit more grounding that there is an actual vibration. Science meters can go put a measuring tool of sorts up to a McDonalds hamburger and up to a grass-fed burger and they are going to be a different vibration. They are going to be in a different stop on the radio frequency. Does that make sense?
Joy: Yeah, totally.
Claire: I’m nodding like people can see this. You think after nine years of podcasting.
Joy: Podcast listeners, we are enthralled and in it.
Gina: So what has to happen is we must be the vibrational match to what we have asked for. So for example, when I was broke and $75,000 in debt and my $2,000 a month, I was at a $2,000 a month frequency. I wanted to be at a $10,000 a month frequency. That was the desire, and I had asked for it, but I didn’t have it because emotionally, energetically, my vibe was at two grand, not at ten grand. Everyone listening, be clear. This doesn’t mean that someone at ten grand is better than someone at two grand. This means that in this area of my life, I had a low frequency around receiving money. It was connected to my own self-worth. My vibe was low. I was in McDonald’s world in terms of being insecure about charging my worth, not knowing who I am, feeling like it was wrong to receive money. All of that is a vibration. And the only difference between people does not make them better, does not make them more integrous, does not make them more talented. Somebody who is allowing ten grand a month to come in has a higher frequency, a higher availability to receiving that. They have less judgement, less interference, less static if we want to use the radio analogy, so they are able to tune it in more clearly.
Joy: That makes total sense. Let me interject really quickly. I want to make it clear too, I have a little bit of a confession to make that I am clear about how much I am very interested, and I want to buy in. I listened every single day because I had to, because I knew this was the only thing that was going to get me by while I was out of a job and scared, I listened every single day to an Abraham Hicks podcast episode. I have tons of readings and books. I know all of it. But it was like, I am so scared that if I don’t really get myself somewhere in the middle, I’ll just drown and I’ll never work again and I’ll be in a really negative place. And that was the only thing that got me by. So I do have it in me to get to that place of just being like, Joy, if you want to have a better situation – and the funny thing is that the job that I was miserable and hated it and everything was negative, and I was negative. And it’s like, the universe was like, poof, you’re not in that anymore. I’m like, get me out of here. Then I got to the place where literally every day in the summer, I was listening to it religiously because I’m like, I’ve got to really digest this into my bones. It truly saved me on some days when I was the lowest of the low. I was like, you just have to find the vibrational match.
Gina: Then manifest away then, sister.
Joy: I think, Gina, where I’m talking about too is there is a that block that I will work on – the asking for too much and don’t be greedy, all those things, where I’m like, oh I’ve seen Kim Kardashian manifesting. She does vision boards. All the girls on Selling Sunset, I freaking love that show, they manifest. They’re living my dream life. So that is the gap that I think I have of old beliefs of be grateful for what you have. Why do you need this great life? And yet last week on the podcast Claire and I talked about if we had all the money in the world, we would have a private jet. We were on one once, and we were like, that was the best experience of our life. We never want to fly anything different. We’re dabbling. We’re a little bit farther along than I was letting on, Gina.
Gina: No, I didn’t doubt it for a minute. There’s such a thing around women self-permission and self-acceptance. Giving ourselves permission to say out loud who we really are, unapologetically say what we desire. I talk about in the book, too – I don’t know how much time we have left here.
Joy: Yeah, I want to be mindful of your time. So tell everyone about your book too. Parlay into that.
Gina: I’ll tell a story. So there was a time when, okay, I got my business off and running. It’s all women’s empowerment. All based on the Book of Esther actually about being the queen of your life. It comes from that story. Jews know it from Purim. Christians know it from the Bible. Anyone else, it’s a cool Cinderella story. It’s like that. I was starting to hear these entrepreneurs that were leaping out of the bed in the morning to do their work. I was like, I’m not leaping out. It’s meaningful work. It’s important. It’s necessary. Bur leaping out of bed? I kept hearing it. This is early internet marketing, and I wasn’t digging it. I was like, what would actually make me want to leap out of bed in the morning? If I knew I was going to Italy, I would leap out of bed that morning. If Pozatano was in my horizon, yes. I was like, Gina DeVee, you cannot say that out loud. That is career suicide. If people think that you are about anything other than spirituality, personal development, women’s empowerment, this substantive stuff, helping people, you are going to look like shallow lifestyle, materialistic. This cannot get out. This secret is not getting out. What you resist persists. Nothing would have me want to leap out of bed in the morning more than going to Italy. So I save up the money to buy the tickets and then the hotel and this and that. Then I finally knew I was going to Italy. I guess it’s kind of important – it’s a big story in the book. So then I had all the money for all of the bills, which was part of my pattern. And then a week before we were leaving, I was like, “I did it again.” My husband is like, “What?” I was like, I don’t mean to sound ungrateful, but I made all the money for all the logistical stuff, but there’s no money left over for shopping. And believe me, I know what this sounds like. You can judge, but you will be left behind if you do because it is an important point in this.
Joy: You’ll be left behind. [laughing]
Gina: He’s like, “How much money do you need for shopping?” And out of my mouth goes, “$20,000.” You’re talking to a woman who is used to making $24,000 in a year. He’s like, “$20,000? Well then, go and make $20,000.” I was like, “What? In a week?” The short version, I went and made $20,000 in a week. I went to Italy. I had the time of my life. I went shopping, and I spend $20,000 in about ten minutes because that is all it takes on the island of Capri. I sent out a newsletter. And I was like, I don’t even know if I want people to know that I’m here. This was pre-social media. I sent out a newsletter of me in Italy. Kind of nonchalantly mentioned that we were there. Talked about a few things. Hit send. Hid under the couch. Totally thought people were going to throw tomatoes in my face like, “You shallow, materialistic,” blah, blah, blah. I started getting the emails back. “Oh my gosh, I want to go to Italy.” “I want to go to Italy too.” And another woman was like, “I don’t want to go to Italy, but I want to go to Costa Rica on a yoga retreat.” I remember a woman from England wrote me and she was like, “I don’t want to travel anywhere. I just want new curtains for my kitchen.” And what it showed me is this concept of queenhood is, yes, about developing ourselves a really beautiful lifestyle in whatever form that looks like for any woman. God has placed desires in our heart. So here’s the thing, I thought it was selfish. I was totally scared to tell people. Remember, God doesn’t give me the A to Z. I’m only trusted with the next maybe 1-2 steps. I haven’t worked up a trust factor for more around the cornerness. And so I was doing all this really substantive work. Ten hours a day, Queen Esther, Queen Esther, “for such a time as this,” and you’re royal, and getting out of being the orphan girl and exiled. I write about it more in the book. I was just talking about something. I hadn’t embodied it yet. My brand, my aesthetic, my physicality did not look queenly. And God gave me the archetype of queen to bring forth into the world. Thank God I didn’t get monk. God bless all the monks out there. I’m just not into burlap. Thank God I got queen, castle, royal robes.
Joy: It totally fits, yeah. That’s great.
Gina: But it all makes sense. And here I was thinking I was being selfish to go for this materialistic stuff that was really meant to be the embodiment, the further extension of my queen brand. Again, this was back in 2008. My book came out in 2020. The Audacity to Be Queen. Like I said, I didn’t know that was going to be the name of my book. I didn’t know all of this stuff. But when you trust the desires of your hearth and you have the courage to follow them, it will be made clear.
Joy: I won’t ask you this question now, but I will ask if it is in the book. I definitely want to read it. About how to follow those nudges. Because when we’re talking about manifesting, it’s not like you’re sitting back like, “Alright, show me the goods.” There has to be that connection to yourself. I am assuming that you go into that.
Gina: I’ll tell you what, why don’t you read the book and see if it answers that question. And if it doesn’t, then I know what to write my second book on.
Joy: Okay, great.
Gina: [laughing] I hope it does. It is my intention that it’s in this book, but if it’s not doing the job for you, Joy, I’ve got a second book in me.
Joy: Okay, we’re going to talk. I’ll let you know, Gina.
Claire: After you finish your pole dancing class.
Gina: Oh, that is happening. Yes. That is just everything. Such a gift.
Joy: So because the listeners cannot miss out on that, please tell them where they can find you. You are at divineliving.com and all the socials I am assuming ate @divineliving?
Gina: No, actually. @ginadevee. So if you want the book, go to divineliving.com/book. There’s some other juicy things you get if you get it there. It’s where all books are sold, Amazon and everything else. divineliving.com/book. The free companion course to the book. You don’t have to buy the book, though I hope you do. You can get this for free. divineliving.com/audacity. And then if you want into my Q Club, the Q Club app, go to divineliving.com/app. And if you’re on Instagram, follow me @ginadevee and my podcast is Divine Living.
Joy: I love your podcast as well. I recently listened to the episode where I think you were in Italy. You were somewhere traveling and a bug was flying –
Gina: Oh, you listened to that one?
Joy: You were so funny. You were like, “I don’t know with technology to turn this off.” You’re like, “A bug just flew on me! It’s a really cute bug, but I just don’t want it to be here.”
Gina: I was in a farmhouse in Piedmont, and yes, that bug flew in. And my team still hasn’t taught me to pause when I record, so you got the full episode.
Joy: Oh my God, it was so great. I was like, I’m really going to like her. I’m really going to like her. Thank you so much. For all the questions and challenges we have, it’s really within ourselves. I know that. It’s just a reflection of the blocks we have around it and the beliefs within ourselves, and that’s really what I wanted to talk to you about because I know so many people will hear this too and have those cringy moments. Kind of like what you had before you had your first money miracle. Just to look at that. One of the lessons I am learning right now, just in my personal life journey is just because I know something or I think I know everything about a topic is to keep learning. That’s just been something that I noticed recently. You always have something more to learn. It’s not that I think I’m a know it all, but there are some things where I’m like, “I’ve already heard this before.” That’s just been something that has really been a roadblock for me. I’m going to take that lesson with this as well. Let’s see what else. I can’t wait to read your book. So thank you for taking the time. I know we went over, but I really appreciate your time.
Gina: Oh my goodness, this has been so much fun. I am so grateful, so honored to be here, and thank you for having me.
Joy: Thank you.
Claire: And to our listeners, you can find us at joyandclaire.com. Find us on Instagram @joyandclaire_. You can email us firstname.lastname@example.org. We love being here every Thursday. Thank you for being here with us, and we will talk to you next week,
Joy: Bye guys.